It's time to start EUV

[Niekolaus]

Agree, it is time for EU5 - Europa Universalis 5

 

[JaxElite]

I don't know if I'd call it 'risk on steriods' if it made estates/pops/development/etc more central to the game. For reference, I don't think the mod MEIOU (which adds a lot of internal mechanics, and will add a ton more when MEIOU 3.0 comes out) is a 'risk on steriods' type of game. Maybe you disagree, in which case this is more a discussion over definitions rather than mechanics.

To be clear: while MEIOU is an awesome mod that I think everyone who wants a more historical and realistic game should try, I don't think the devs should try and model EU5 after MEIOU. I'm not arguing that at all. I know that saying MEIOU is more realistic than EU4 sounds like I'm complimenting the former and insulting the later, but I don't think games necessarily need to be realistic or historically-inclined, and I don't think games that are like that are always better than games that aren't.

And, as I've said in many posts, I don't think there are enough players like me to make making a game like that worthwhile. I would just appreciate more internal mechanics, that's all.

Yeah i think we share the same opinion and i just tripped over the wording. I long for more internal content and was kust recently thinking how eu4 would look if every DLC included as much internal mechanics as emperor did.

I did not play MEIOU yet, since i mostly play MP or Achievements so i can't comment on that.

 

[SolSys]

A simple case of something that was remoced from eu3 for vanilla eu4 and later readded were CoT.

But i have to admit, i don't have enough eu3 experience for a complete list.

You lost me here.
What do you mean by "CoT"? The modifier? The trade node screen?

 

[PyroMegaManZ]

Pop systems would overly bloat the game for any new players considering there isn't that much interaction with pops in this period; for the most part there was basically four or five classes of people, no one moved between classes, no one really immigrated around other than for expulsion of populations in a few select cases that are modeled by the game already, and provinces rather than small groups of individuals at a time would shift religion or culture. In Vic 2 and Imperator pops make a lot of sense as populations were incredibly fluid and dynamic in both these time periods. For EU4 (or the theoretical EU5) however it would require so many additional buttons and mechanics that they would have to strip out a bunch of other mechanics to make space for it.

I think it can be quite safely said that no matter how many mechanics they squeezed into the game, the exact same people would still call Paradox thieves or bad game designers every patch and DLC.

 

[SolSys]

Like i said i admit not knowing enough about eu3 to pinpoint what exactly was cut for which reason.

EU3 had a total development timeframe was about 5 years afaik.

We keep a list of all DDs on the wiki for all you nostalgic folks.

Developer diaries - Europa Universalis 4 Wiki

eu4.paradoxwikis.com

Europa Universalis IV dev diary 2 –The purge & all cards on the table

Welcome to a new development diary about Europa Universalis IV where we talk about the purge the game is undergoing. So what is a purge when it comes to creating a sequel? Purging is when we remove features that simply are not good enough...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Actually, EU3 had probably less dev time (not considering idea/vision talks). At the time PDS had a single team moving between the different projects.

 

[JaxElite]

We keep a list of all DDs on the wiki for all you nostalgic folks.

Developer diaries - Europa Universalis 4 Wiki

eu4.paradoxwikis.com

Europa Universalis IV dev diary 2 –The purge & all cards on the table

Welcome to a new development diary about Europa Universalis IV where we talk about the purge the game is undergoing. So what is a purge when it comes to creating a sequel? Purging is when we remove features that simply are not good enough...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Actually, EU3 had probably less dev time (not considering idea/vision talks). At the time PDS had a single team moving between the different projects.

Which would only further strengthen the argument that implementing all of eu4 features into eu4 vanilla would take ages

 

[Tue_p3]

I actually disagree since 1.30. it plays like a blast. The update also shows that they are willing to throw away and rework mechanics if they found a better more fun way to do.
Don't forget that if they start eu5 you will lose initially a lot of content compared to 4.
Doing 2 years over an update may also be a business choice since eu4 competes with ck3 and IR. Doesn't mean new dlc will take again 2 years.

 

[Koopatin]

Whenever I hear pop I get a healthy case of stellaris lag PTSD....

 

[Mike1984]

I know that Johan has already said they are planning new expansions for EUIV but this feels like a mistake for the following reasons:

- 1.30 had the longest development cycle yet it is riddled with bugs. The EUIV code base has clearly become too bloated to update.

- Imperator: Rome and CK3 have new good looking maps with incredible detail. EU also needs a map upgrade.

- Much needed overhauls such as switching to a pop based system and a dynamic trade route feature would allow greater nuance in gameplay. Fundamental feature overhauls like this can only come in a sequel.

- Buying all EUIV content costs hundreds of dollars or a subscription.

Bear in mind that they made several expansions for CK2 whilst CK3 was in active development, so the two are not mutually exclusive.

Frankly, given how long CK3 was in development before it was announced, I would be extremely surprised if they haven't started work on EU5 already. In which case, the timescale is already set. They'll announce it when it's in a state they feel comfortable announcing it in, and until then they'll continue work in EU4.

 

[JaxElite]

Bear in mind that they made several expansions for CK2 whilst CK3 was in active development, so the two are not mutually exclusive.

the issue i have with this is how johan repeatedly stated that he would be lead for eu5 if it was made and he is assigned to lead more eu4 dlcs. So i guess development did not start yet. Also there is the option, which i know many players hate, that there won't be an EU5. (I mean how many people seriously belief there will be Vicky 3?)

 

[Cagallo]

During this time period. population was the most important resource. Slightly edging out competant rulars and generals. This game needs a pop system

I was not necessarily saying it from a historically perspective (which is has been very well answered by other colleagues here), but from the need to preserve some variety in game mechanics and play style between Paradox games. If not, they could well do a single game going from 200 bc to 2000 ac -- oh, right, that's called Civilization VI.

 

[iClipse]

So, how many threads about EU5 do we need again?

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/eu4-after-the-emperor-update.1395018/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/europa-universalis-5.1273994/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...utside-of-europe.1316294/page-5#post-26464312
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...expected-eu5-confirmed.1395034/#post-26623974

And these are just the very recent threads.

 

[JaxElite]

So, how many threads about EU5 do we need again?

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/eu4-after-the-emperor-update.1395018/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/europa-universalis-5.1273994/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...utside-of-europe.1316294/page-5#post-26464312
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...expected-eu5-confirmed.1395034/#post-26623974

And these are just the very recent threads.

Expect one-two daily. We had one or two "This will be the last EU4 DLC" threads daily during the second half of the emperor dev cycle. Since it is the same kind of doomsayers posting these.

 

[Hussar1612]

Im dipping in grave but really, I dont see potential for culture and development systems in EU4. From what I saw some abstract population system should be implemented with development on top of that(smth like CK3). This would affect religion and culture as it should. Like converting only nobles for some priveleges but rural population stays the same culture and only slowly converts when migrating to towns. Also we need dynasty trees shown. I don't mean full CK style, but there were big wars in Europe over succesions and pretenders(PLC, Russia, Spain as biggest examples). Not to mention scrapping useless options. Who is using trade wars? This idea should be redesigned as limited wars in which only navy fights or smth like that.

 

[zbyrne]

I know that Johan has already said they are planning new expansions for EUIV but this feels like a mistake for the following reasons:

- 1.30 had the longest development cycle yet it is riddled with bugs. The EUIV code base has clearly become too bloated to update.

- Imperator: Rome and CK3 have new good looking maps with incredible detail. EU also needs a map upgrade.

- Much needed overhauls such as switching to a pop based system and a dynamic trade route feature would allow greater nuance in gameplay. Fundamental feature overhauls like this can only come in a sequel.

- Buying all EUIV content costs hundreds of dollars or a subscription.

I would notionally agree that PDX going and building a proper game from scratch with more interesting systems which integrate with one another should be what PDX should do, but given the fiasco that 1.30 and debt spiral has been, DO YOU TRUST THEM TO DO AN EU5 ANY BETTER?

I sure as hell don't.

 

[Hussar1612]

I assume that EU5 will be like EU4 with all dlcs systems integrated and some crucial systems changed. Sounds pretty good, just look how good estates are now when in basegame. Just look how much CK3 is changed comparing to CK2. Problem is EU4 is still selling to good. Ofc the problem are patches along with paid dlcs, which have some unique mechanics which cannot be integrated with other dlcs. HoI4 is integrating much more from dlcs. Only crucial (but still big) things are behind paywall.

 

[sylanna]

If Johan stays on the wheel, EU5 will be more EU4 with a pop system.

 

[Cancerofthehead]

The game could very easily abstract and generalise a lot of internal mechanics, just like it already does for literally every other mechanic in the game. Making estates central to gameplay or adding in POPs would, in and of itself, create a lot of generalisable inernal mechanics.

(Does EU4 usually have a bigger playerbase than CK2? The last I saw, which admittedly was a few months ago, the numbers were comparable.)

In the past year EUIV has been consistently averaging about twice as many players on steam. The exceptions beIng right when CKII went free to play, it almost caught up to EUIV for a couple months and after emperor EUIV was much higher but is tracking back to the twice as many.

 

[Hussar1612]

If Johan stays on the wheel, EU5 will be more EU4 with a pop system.

with new trade system doesnt sound bad

 

[sylanna]

with new trade system doesnt sound bad

It does to me. Tech groups and the culture system are pure cancer imo.

I heard that Imperator does culture well after the latest update.