It's time to kill EUIV

[TurambarMB]

Their discounts aren't so impressive. Someone wishing to buy the FULL game would have to pay 180€ on Steam today (and it is on sales). It isn't cheap, even Matrix games aren't so expensive... At the same time, it is becoming more and more complex and messy (yes, it is now the first word I think to when thinking to EUIV). It is really bad to bring in new players and keep them (I know, I tried, and not with Starcraft-loving noobs). All the more since the game lacks explanations (any tooltips to explain how states and territories work?).

With each update/DLC, there have been good changes and questionable changes. But now, I am sure of one thing: 1.15 is far more fun to play (for me, but I don't think to be alone). 1.16 has good ideas, but overall it is really bad.

So yes they should stop with EUIV. Stop DLC, finish to polish it, and let it be a great game. Do other games, and come back to the EU series when you have interesting new ideas.

 

[Mann42]

Random thought: I think I'd feel better about all the upgrades if they felt like cohesive, integrated systems.

Right now, every expansion introduces a collection of new systems that are barely related to each other or the systems that already exist, except to sometimes act as a second layer of maluses over an existing system. Then, with the next expansion, instead of refining, fixing, or building off of what they've already created, they just create a bunch of new systems, once again barely related to each other or existing systems unless they want to double/triple dip on a penalty. Sometimes, their new systems straight up co-opt or eliminate the need for an older system that people already paid for, but they leave it there as this vestigial corpse of a half system.

There's no vision. There's no cohesion. It feels like it's all just more for the sake of more, without any real thought to how it works as a whole, how it factors into the gameplay loop, or how it factors into what's come before. They know people will pay for it simply because it's more, so they don't really have to make it work as anything else.

Like I said, just my opinion, though. Power to you if like the way it's done.

 

[UpperLorraine]

It feels like it's all just more for the sake of more, without any real thought to how it works as a whole, how it factors into the gameplay loop, or how it factors into what's come before. They know people will pay for it simply because it's more, so they don't really have to make it work as anything else.

This.

Look, I'm really not trying to be a detractor here. I like Paradox, I love their products, and after the way I showed my ass several years ago so publically and vocally defending Ubik, I feel as if I owe them them benefit of the doubt. But the truth remains that their DLC model has become a cash-grab, and the DLC released for EUIV seems to have consistently disastrous results with every release. I don't think it's fair that Paradox catches so little flak for their practices while Creative Assembly is nailed to the cross over pre-order DLC that will probably cost $5.

 

[hitchens]

Can we just please make new features optional? I would very much like to not have colonial nations, estates or corruption. Micro management just for the sake of micro management is....Im not sure what word to use but its similar to hate.

 

[JakeCourtney]

No, we don't need EU5. The engine is perfectly fine right now and there are plenty of ideas for expansions for years.

However, they need to start spending a bit of time after each DLC release and really balance and improve the AI. Right now the AI is the weakest point of the game, but also the most important. All the mechanics in the world mean nothing if the AI can't fully use them or fails to use them correctly. It only lowers the challenge and makes the game less fun.

 

[Chlodio]

Their discounts aren't so impressive. Someone wishing to buy the FULL game would have to pay 180€ on Steam today (and it is on sales).

It seems that they aren't betting on new audience but survive with the old. However it feels odd that they still sell Conquest of Paradise same price as Mare Nostum, despise it being over two years old. Perhaps their economic are so unstable that dropping euro of every year until product's price reaches price of 5€ would lead to bankruptcy or maybe they're just milking it.

 

[JakeCourtney]

Probably just counting on the people who are not smart enough to go to 3rd party sites to buy everything at full price on Steam. Anyone else with a brain is going to use the internet to find a better price.

 

[b.arts4]

wel i could have saved paradox allot of time, what have they created: time cutting mechanisms. blobbing = expansions in a certen time frame, now they go to all these loops to shorten the timeframe where u can actualy expand

so in the end they could have simply set the enddate to 1700 take all tech devide by 400 times 300 and be done with it

easy cash because enough braindeads would cheer for this and pay

bil

 

[Alerias]

If its not an option to make EU5, I hope at least you'll consider patching in things like an option to scale up the interface size so I can finally play EU4 at 2560 native res without going blind from tiny interface elements. Its crazy that Clauswitz doesnt seem to properly support that yet. I have a sneaking suspicion that HOI4 might still lack this too and that we'll only get that critical feature come EU5.

 

[melkor88]

I admit you made some points I agree with, I am not a fan of the Corruption feature, and have never been interested in playing tall (as for the price of 1 extra Development you can take another province which gives even more benefits)
But I still play EU4 all the time even after 2300+hrs, I admit it will take the back burner when Stellaris comes out, and then maybe only play it occasionally when HOI4 is out, but if they stop this now, we probably won't have an EU5 until 2021-23 or who knows when. And I would rather not have to wait all that time.

 

[LokiusMaximus]

It seems that they aren't betting on new audience but survive with the old. However it feels odd that they still sell Conquest of Paradise same price as Mare Nostum, despise it being over two years old. Perhaps their economic are so unstable that dropping euro of every year until product's price reaches price of 5€ would lead to bankruptcy or maybe they're just milking it.

I got Conquest of Paradise for 67% off recently. But really, even at that discount, there wasn't a lot of value to it. Random New World is something I tried and will never try again. Most of the other features were already added in other DLCs which I already had. It would be interesting to compile all the features of every DLC released, remove the duplicates, and see what you really get for $115.

Probably just counting on the people who are not smart enough to go to 3rd party sites to buy everything at full price on Steam. Anyone else with a brain is going to use the internet to find a better price.

Most people looking forward to a DLC want it right away and you aren't going to find any discounts on new releases unless you happen to have a general offer from the store itself. I am streaky with this game. I will play a playthrough or two, get bored, then come back a few months later. If a DLC was released right as I got bored, then I may pick it up at a discount. But if one excites me while I am actively playing (like Art of War did), then I will pay for it. Doesn't mean the value isn't terrible and that the DLC won't cause a whole slew of new problems.

 

[JakeCourtney]

I got Conquest of Paradise for 67% off recently. But really, even at that discount, there wasn't a lot of value to it. Random New World is something I tried and will never try again. Most of the other features were already added in other DLCs which I already had. It would be interesting to compile all the features of every DLC released, remove the duplicates, and see what you really get for $115.



Most people looking forward to a DLC want it right away and you aren't going to find any discounts on new releases unless you happen to have a general offer from the store itself. I am streaky with this game. I will play a playthrough or two, get bored, then come back a few months later. If a DLC was released right as I got bored, then I may pick it up at a discount. But if one excites me while I am actively playing (like Art of War did), then I will pay for it. Doesn't mean the value isn't terrible and that the DLC won't cause a whole slew of new problems.

The new DLC was 20% off Day 1 on 3rd party sites. Not much savings, but I got the new expansion for only $12.

 

[SolSys]

Just to correct you Sid's name is on CIV IV, but he wasn't in the design team for IV (not sure if III even) - he was working on game designs for Sims. Also, your argument boils down to "so and so released a bad game" so his rules for making great games should be ignored.

Even if he was in the design of IV - that nulls his list of GREAT games?

I'm aware of his participation level [lead designer - Soren Johnson].

More importantly, I never said the games were bad only that I felt Civ3 was more fun, but whatever rocks your boat.
Some folk enjoyed to a great extend playing "Dance, Dance Revolution". What stopped you from quoting their game designer's important rules for fun?

 

[Chlodio]

Most people looking forward to a DLC want it right away and you aren't going to find any discounts on new releases unless you happen to have a general offer from the store itself.

Bought Mare Nostum and Content Pack one day after its release from Imperial Games and saved 5€ (29% of the Steam price). Gotta love currency conversion and -8% sale. Steam sells everything with fixed values (except pounds).

 

[HaniNachmias]

NO. At least not until we've got HOI4 up&running, I'd be bored to death if EU won't get patches and expansions, it keeps things interesting.

 

[Jayavarman]

But you do agree that their DLC model has gotten out of hand. They don't seem to appreciate that while the gold is rolling in now, a lot of people are getting really burnt out on the continuous cost of their games. Eventually, people (like me) are going to reach points where we're simply not willing to pay $20 for a DLC anymore.

That's the point. Once demand falls (getting burnt out in your case), supply (development) of DLC will cease.

But since players are still increasing with each DLC, your warning is currently premature.

 

[oothal]

The less gameplay changes there are, the greater chance of actually making the AI better.

This statement right here is absolute truth. I can only speak for myself but I find the AI in EU 4 to be atrocious. Instead of AI improvements the devs spend their time reworking basic game play mechanics. How can poor AI keep pace with an actual human brain? cheat!

To me personally the devs believe that challenging game play comes from reworking game play mechanics instead of improving the AI.

 

[jdrou]

Not really relevant dates as technically both EU3 and Vicky 2 are "dead" for some years (the bonus patch Vicky 2 got this year doesn´t really count). Their development cycle ended long ago. The question is how much this one deserves.

His EU3 number is accurate though; from initial release to final patch release on EU3 was roughly 6 years. Jan/Feb 2007 to May 2013.

 

[John Locke]

I disagree with the comment saying the game is just changing not getting better. Of course it is a matter for debate, but for example, i'm having tons of fun with the new states / territories mechanic, and that's just one example among dozens of them. The game HAS gotten better. But it is true that some patches brought massive changes and some people would have preferred to see this changes in DLCs or more likely in a new game. They would have preferred to have the choice of staying close to the original vanilla version.

 

[RedSparrows]

I would guess the vast majority disagreeing with me didn't even bother to read the post and only the title. The first six disagrees were within a minute of posting. Oh well, what can one expect in a modern society of Twitter where anything past 144 characters is considered a novel.

Clickbait, hyperbolic thread titles are pretty irritating too.