It's Official--If you like the game pausing to tell you what is going on you're doing it wrong

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Merrivale

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Sadly, after years of flirting with it, Paradox seems to have finally decided that all of those people who enjoy playing their games utilizing the good old pause button in conjunction with messages that make sure you don't miss something going on in the world are doing it wrong.

  • lots of pausable popup messages hoi3 style will not happen. we will add more indicators, or settings to alerts, but the game is not intended to be paused every hour under a giant pile of popups like hoi3 was

Apparently the game is intended to be paused every few minutes so you can scan the world and make sure you aren't missing something.

It does appear that EUIV may be the high water mark for UI flexibility in a Paradox game. Note that by flexibility I mean having the UI do what YOU want it to do, not what the game designer has decided in advance is the best way to play.

Still no word of course if liking to click on a mini map instead of scrolling around and liking to have all of the game's information in a nice tidy ledger are also bad ways to play Paradox games.

I'm the last person around here to accuse the company of dumbing down game elements in order to appeal to mass audiences. I think each version of Paradox games has been more complicated, not less, than the previous and this includes HOI IV. But the only reasonable explanation that I can come up with for not just making the information and pause playstyle an option is that it's too scary for newbies to Paradox games: the mountain of potential messages and settings. It can't be that difficult to program. It already existed in previous games on this engine. It isn't some advanced feature you're worried the AI won't be able to handle or will clog the game processor. In many ways what the team is apparently going to do is actually harder, they are going to try to replace the information you get from the popups with some other way of doing it without actually having a message that pops on your screen. Seems impossible to me for dealing with all of the units and all of the battles (just imagine the "enemy fleet detected" or something similar message from Stellaris times hundreds).

To which I would say, just make the default what it is now: the game tells you nothing about where your troops are and what they are doing, nothing about gains or setbacks you are experiencing, and nothing about what is going in on other nations around the world. The player is required to know all of this by frantically scanning the map at all times, or basically just trust the battle planner to do everything for them. Those who like the game this way can keep playing this way. But for those who prefer to be told that they've lost a province half way around the world from where they are currently focusing (and by told, I mean TOLD, not just an alert icon that immediately ceases being useful once more than one occasion of the alert is happening at once), for those that prefer to be told that a unit is sitting around doing nothing, and for those who prefer to know that a country has changed ideologies, there would be an OPTION for them to do it their way, even if someone had to mod it in to make it happen.

I've been playing Paradox games since 2000. This is easily the most disappointed I've been in the company since then. And yes, I played HOI III at the start. Because I know that the issues that exist in their games are getting worked and will, for the most part get fixed. In a few months the AI in HOI IV is going to be very capable.

But a real-time game with a pause button and literally hundreds of units all moving around the world, winning and losing battles, as well as scores of countries with their own policies and situations changing, that PURPOSELY hides this information from the player?

The strange thing is the weird silence from Paradox people about message settings, here and in the Stellaris forums. Usually they just come right out and say "no" about things and then people start to bicker. I guess they think it's such a minor issue that it wasn't even worth the time to respond.
 
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Apparently the game is intended to be paused every few minutes so you can scan the world and make sure you aren't missing something
I'd say that dev quote suggests the actual intended way is to give you indications when something is happening so you don't miss that 'something', and letting you decide if it warrants a pause.
 
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How do you strategize without pertinent information...?

Great post!


------
 
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Merrivale

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I'd say that dev quote suggests the actual intended way is to give you indications when something is happening so you don't miss that 'something', and letting you decide if it warrants a pause.

And if I've decided that this sort of information always warrants a pause? And can you please tell me how you are going to tell me that a unit is under attack without a popup? Keep in mind that you'll likely have numerous units under attack at any given time.
 
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As someone who plays exclusively on speed 5, the popups were a nightmare. I decide when to pause, not the game.

Yes, you did get to decide. And so did I. We both played the same games in entirely different ways. Now neither of us get to decide, you just get to play the way you want and I don't.
 
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As someone who plays exclusively on speed 5, the popups were a nightmare. I decide when to pause, not the game.
So because you don't like pop-ups, you don't want anyone to even have the option of having them, even though in HOI3 there was a message options panel that allowed you to turn them off. Okay. How considerate.

Yes, the grognards are always the minority of the playerbase.
You don't have to be a grognard to want the option of knowing when enemy troops are invading you somewhere. I certainly don't consider myself a hardcore strategy players, and I found the pop-ups in HOi3 essential.

If popups were a "nightmare" to you, you could have gone into the message options window and spent half a minute turning them off. That you didn't and they ended up being a "nightmare" for you is no one's fault but your own.
 
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So because you don't like pop-ups, you don't want anyone to even have the option of having them, even though in HOI3 there was a message options panel that allowed you to turn them off. Okay. How considerate.


You don't have to be a grognard to want the option of knowing when enemy troops are invading you somewhere. I certainly don't consider myself a hardcore strategy players, and I found the pop-ups in HOi3 essential.

If popups were a "nightmare" to you, you could have gone into the message options window and spent half a minute turning them off. That you didn't and they ended up being a "nightmare" for you is no one's fault but your own.

And yet, the devs went in another direction. How about that.
 
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And can you please tell me how you are going to tell me that a unit is under attack without a popup? Keep in mind that you'll likely have numerous units under attack at any given time.
A simple way would be e.g. to put a red border around the army symbol on the theater panel, if unit which is part of that army is in combat.

Now tell me, how do you imagine doing this with popups? Have a popup (and pause) every time an unit is attacked? Keeping in mind the very thing you've said -- that you'll likely have numerous units getting under attack and fighting at any given time.
 
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Once again, another easy fix that could be incorporated into settings. The list that keeps on growing.
 
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What are the chances of Paradox including this pause option in a future release? I find the fact that I occasionally miss pop ups very irritating - every hour counts!
 
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A simple way would be e.g. to put a red border around the army symbol on the theater panel, if unit which is part of that army is in combat.

Now tell me, how do you imagine doing this with popups? Have a popup (and pause) every time an unit is attacked? Keeping in mind the very thing you've said -- that you'll likely have numerous units getting under attack and fighting at any given time.

I imagine your suggestion is the way they are going to go: more sounds and nifty visual icons on the map that generally only work when something is not in one state and then changes to another: you are not under attack and then your are. But in a theater with mass engagement, like say the Eastern Front, you are constantly going to be under attack somewhere. So either you keep your attention there, and rely on the notification to tell you that your other hot theater, like say the Mid East or the Western Front, also has a potential problem developing. The problem is that if you already have one division in the theater you aren't focusing on under attack, an attack in a different sector of that same theater requires your red border to do something to catch my attention. Now further imagine that you're attacked in two different areas in the same theater while another attack has already occurred. The red border cannot handle this situation because it can't alert you twice at the same time. Now give yourself the same exercise with unit that has arrived at a location and has no orders. Or that you've lost a province in a theater. It just starts to add up real fast.

As to how to do it with popups, horrifyingly it is exactly as you said. This was possible in every Paradox game prior to Stellaris and HOI IV. So yeah, definitely not a playstyle for everyone and something you do have to be on your toes about clicking quickly. Again, it was optional (that you seem not to know that this is how it was in HOI III indicates that is wasn't a horrible drag on people who didn't like it). There were some lovely suggestions about ways to further customize popups so that you could exclude popups from certain theaters or certain unit types.
 
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The game doesn't even tell you when or where you're being invaded!

What do you mean? There is a amphibious invasion warning that tells you before the invasion starts what region it will be taking place in.

Do you just mean an actual "they just landed" kind of notification?
 
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Sleight of Hand

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What do you mean? There is a amphibious invasion warning that tells you before the invasion starts what region it will be taking place in.

Do you just mean an actual "they just landed" kind of notification?
Yes.

And the naval invasion warning will appear regardless of whether the invasion is a success. 9 times out of 10 it's a false alarm.
 
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Le Creep

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What do you mean? There is a amphibious invasion warning that tells you before the invasion starts what region it will be taking place in.

Do you just mean an actual "they just landed" kind of notification?

To be fair the current warning is extremely unreliable. I've gotten the aphibious landing notification multiple times without any landing happening within six months.
 
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tom_jones

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The problem is that if you already have one division in the theater you aren't focusing on under attack, an attack in a different sector of that same theater requires your red border to do something to catch my attention. Now further imagine that you're attacked in two different areas in the same theater while another attack has already occurred. The red border cannot handle this situation because it can't alert you twice at the same time.
I think it's very much possible to handle such situations -- keep on mind a theater isn't a wholesome thing, but it's likely to have multiple, separate armies/corps which are operating locally. So e.g. if you have one such group operating in the north part of the theater and it gets under attack and the border around the symbol for that group goes red, you get rough idea where that attack happens, based on your knowledge where you put that group. If there's more attack happening on that group then yes the border want show that (I guess it could flash when new attack happens but that's just getting fancy) but you already know there's fighting going in that part of the theater. But if an attack happens on other part of the front? You'd expect a different group to be assigned there, with its own symbol that until now was idle, and it'll be border of that particular group that goes red, in addition to the other one.

This way you can get at a glance an indication how active the theater is overall, simply by looking how many groups which are assigned to it are involved in combat.
 

Dan1109

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How about when an enemy fleet is detected? From radar, subs on patrol with "do not engage", moddable PBYs....i.e. INTEL that pops of the screen on the other side of the world for a few seconds, and then disappears...just because it is visible, doesn't mean that there is an engagement.
 
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