What title says, i want to go back to CK2 and i'm not sure if i should skip Conclave DLC altogheter.
Any suggestions?.
Any suggestions?.
Its Conclave worth it?
- Thread starter cobychr
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I wholeheartly thinks it's worth it.
But problem is there is a lot of unexplained things such as councilor stance logic, so if you will use it, you better read Wiki about it.
But problem is there is a lot of unexplained things such as councilor stance logic, so if you will use it, you better read Wiki about it.
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Ya know people ask that here and on the subreddit over and over and over again.
And I have never had an answer.
Because it's like asking do you want more punisment in your life?
Do you want them to actually demand some balance of power between you and them?
Do you want to be bent over a table and shafted by a rod of collective ambition disguised as democracy at every succession?
Some successions you will wiggle by through gift and scheme and avoid the rod but not always
Do you want them to be real? Do you want them to be filled with chaos? A chaos that admittedly emulates the history of men.
I am a glutton for punishment. I may lobby for some tweaking of the increased power faction here or there because it needs it.
But the reality is Conclave introduces a chaos factor, a bite into the ambitions of men that was not previously there.
And if you are a glutton for punishment of for challenge then yes get Conclave.
Even if you aren't you can adapt yourself to it.
And I have never had an answer.
Because it's like asking do you want more punisment in your life?
Do you want them to actually demand some balance of power between you and them?
Do you want to be bent over a table and shafted by a rod of collective ambition disguised as democracy at every succession?
Some successions you will wiggle by through gift and scheme and avoid the rod but not always
Do you want them to be real? Do you want them to be filled with chaos? A chaos that admittedly emulates the history of men.
I am a glutton for punishment. I may lobby for some tweaking of the increased power faction here or there because it needs it.
But the reality is Conclave introduces a chaos factor, a bite into the ambitions of men that was not previously there.
And if you are a glutton for punishment of for challenge then yes get Conclave.
Even if you aren't you can adapt yourself to it.
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I think most of the law changes, other than council power, are actually an improvement, much better than the old crown authority. The problem is that the power the vassals constantly rebel for only makes the game tedious and annoying rather than give the council any real power. The only one that makes sense is title revocation, as preventing the liege from violating the rights of his vassals is exactly what they should be doing. Out of everything, the biggest problem is that the council will always be discontent on succession, kind of killing the entire point of a council position buying loyalty of vassals.
Sometimes I turn it on, if I plan on playing as a vassal. As a ruler, it's far better to keep it turned off. Do I think it's worth $15? No.
Sometimes I turn it on, if I plan on playing as a vassal. As a ruler, it's far better to keep it turned off. Do I think it's worth $15? No.
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I say it's worth it. The best thing is that the tooltips go out of their way to explain councilor logic, so you never need the wiki to explain it.
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I do enjoy the changes a lot, and I appreciate them more and more as I understand the mechanics better. Previously I would usually be able to get the laws I wanted within just a few generations and then never touch the screen again, but now there are more long-term goals and a very real risk of vassals rolling back the accomplishments of your better rulers.
I also appreciate a lot of the tradeoffs they brought in with the council. You can use it to pacify your strong vassals, or you can stuff it with weaklings that are easy to manipulate into passing the laws you want, but you can't do both.
I also appreciate a lot of the tradeoffs they brought in with the council. You can use it to pacify your strong vassals, or you can stuff it with weaklings that are easy to manipulate into passing the laws you want, but you can't do both.
I like it a lot. Playing with conclave is harder with a bigger realm, especially the succession crisis is imho harder. Together with Reapers Due it gets really nasty as you tend to get more frequent successions and hence succession crisis... you need to keep alive for some years reigning to get a chance to undo the damage the crisis did (mainly reverse laws). 
Really, the only serious problems with conclave were in mechanics outside of the council. Shattered retreat is a little odd in CK, I don't think it plays nice with the province distance system, and defensive coalitions/threat are static across all religions. Which is equally odd for all but Mongol Horde invasion situations.
Thankfully, you can turn those two off with the new Game Rules menu, without affecting achievements in Ironman or having to fool around with the files.
All the other things with conclave are a hit and miss with people. Some like the council, others hate it. Some like the realm laws, others hate it. I've found it to be a fun system to learn, without being too intrusive on the game, and giving the player more options in the game as well as more threats to nip in the bud. It's not perfect though, being a little hard to understand off the bat in regards to Councillor stances. You really are going to need the wiki info on that, as the game doesn't tell you anything on your potential council appointments.
Thankfully, you can turn those two off with the new Game Rules menu, without affecting achievements in Ironman or having to fool around with the files.
All the other things with conclave are a hit and miss with people. Some like the council, others hate it. Some like the realm laws, others hate it. I've found it to be a fun system to learn, without being too intrusive on the game, and giving the player more options in the game as well as more threats to nip in the bud. It's not perfect though, being a little hard to understand off the bat in regards to Councillor stances. You really are going to need the wiki info on that, as the game doesn't tell you anything on your potential council appointments.
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If you plan on making large empires, it's worth it. Empowered Council, War Declaration voting, and viceroyalties make it fairly easy to control. War Declaration makes it so council members can only join factions for a short while, and then not at all for the rest of your rule. Powerful vassals being placed on the council will almost ensure it will be very hard for the faction to trigger. This is far and away a better alternative to crown authority.
Alternatively, cripple the council into glorified administrators, and marry your family into theirs. Bam, instand non-aggression pact, they won't factionalize or force their agenda on you no matter what With a whole realm of vassals bound by oath to never betray you, you can fill that council up with concubines and courtiers and nobody would care.
With a whole realm of vassals bound by oath to never betray you, you can fill that council up with concubines and courtiers and nobody would care.
Well thats exactly the reason for that im asking, because its on sale and im not sure if i should buy it. Thanks everyone for the answers, im going to give it a try.
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I think it's worth it. Shattered retreat is weird I admit, but I can deal with it. A content council is a great way to keep powerful vassals in line without resorting to tyrannical measures.
my biggest problems with conclave are
1) vassals on the council can not join factions
2)the education system is worse due to the dlc making the gaurdian-ward relationship iralivent and causing children to come of age with around 4 traits
3) when changing a law only vassals in your council can vote instead of all your vassals
4)(anything the dlc does could be implemented 5x better e.g coucil voting , realm peace)
these are the reasons i have conclave disabled
1) vassals on the council can not join factions
2)the education system is worse due to the dlc making the gaurdian-ward relationship iralivent and causing children to come of age with around 4 traits
3) when changing a law only vassals in your council can vote instead of all your vassals
4)(anything the dlc does could be implemented 5x better e.g coucil voting , realm peace)
these are the reasons i have conclave disabled
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Thank you sir, my sarcasm detector just exploded after pointing it to the above and now I'll need to buy myself another one.
No sarcasm. I want to know why my councilor isn't voting my way? I hover over it. I wanna know why he hates me? I hover over it. I wanna know who exactly is considered a powerful vassal? It tells me. I arrange a betrothal? It tells me right off if there'll be a non-aggression pact.
It's extremely transparent and makes the game much easier to manage. I haven't had a threatening faction in generations, during which the only way my laws have changed was to tax everyone even deeper into space
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Ah, fair enough then... I got a hunch that its mechanics were much more "obscure" (as another user, aono, has in many posts explained) and they really required some good ol' wiki to be properly understood (at which point they start to make sense, though).No sarcasm. I want to know why my councilor isn't voting my way? I hover over it. I wanna know why he hates me? I hover over it. I wanna know who exactly is considered a powerful vassal? It tells me. I arrange a betrothal? It tells me right off if there'll be a non-aggression pact.
It's extremely transparent and makes the game much easier to manage. I haven't had a threatening faction in generations, during which the only way my laws have changed was to tax everyone even deeper into space
Another decisive reason is that I still don't own it, hence my impressions are based solely on forum opinions and YT Let's Plays.
I hear you. I put Conclave off till practically just before Reapers Due, due to how much bad press I was hearing from everyone else. Honestly thought it was going to be so much worse, but here I've got all my vassals wrapped around my finger.