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Memnon

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Well, it's a slow day here on the forums, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to describe a *very* unorthodox strategy for the Ottoman Empire I've been considering recently.

I was looking through event files the other day, and it occured to me that, if a human player plans very, very, very well, allowing Russia to recieve Tsar of all the Slavs might actually work out rather well for him. Let me explain what I have in mind:

For those that don't know, Tsar of all the Slavs is an event that Russia gets when it overrruns the Ottoman Empire. If they have occupied Bucharest, Sophia, Belgrade, Sarajevo, Tirane, and Istanbul, and event will fire allowing Russia to declare itself the second Rome. The war ends, the OE becomes a satellite of Russia, they become uncivilized, lose 500 prestige, and Russia inherits all the OE's European posessions.

What on earth could possible be good about this for the Ottomans? Their capital city moves to Ankara--Asia.

I began to consider the possibility that it might be possible to use this to a player's advantage. If you managed to build up a great deal of prestige through colonization of Africa, and if you managed to conquer Persia and so forth and so on, even into China, you could have more than 500 prestige easily by the time Russia attacks in the Crimean War or earlier. The idea, simply put, is this: allow Russia to get the Tsar event, let your capital city be moved to Asia, and suddenly you have the ability to grant statehood to everything from Jerusalem to Japan.

If you've researched cultural techs and colonized, there's no reason you shouldn't have over 600 prestige by the time Rusia attacks. It's also pretty easy to match Russia in military strength. If you just allow Russia to take everything you have in the Balkans, the event will fire, you choose to surrender, and your capital moves to Asia.

Of course, you become a satellite of the Russians, but you can just march your troops into their territory, declare war on them when the treaty expires, and then defeat them to break your satellite status.

The biggest pickle here is that Tsar of all the Slavs makes the OE uncivilized, but it occured to me that if you keep all your industry in African and Anatolia (which you should, considering they're where your national culture POPs are), and if you colonize well, and if you keep you military out of Russian hands, you should have no problem getting the generic civilization event immediately after losing the war, thus making you civilized again.

Basically, you'd be stagnant for something like 10 years after pulling this off, but if you do it just right, you can run off and conquer China and fill it with factories, and at that point even negative prestige won't matter anymore.

I know this idea sounds crazy, perhaps even stupid, but you know, I think it might actually have a chance of working. I'm thinking of giving it a try, but I'd like to hear opinions first.
 

Memnon

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november said:
It doesn’t sound crazy, but why do it? Do you feel Otto is in need of desperate measures regarding Russia?
Not really regarding Russia, but it would give them that HUGE industrial potential in Asia, and they're the only civilized country at the beginning of the game that can ever get it.
 

november

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So, in your eyes this isn’t a desperate strategy but a potentially winning one. Can you reliably expect Russia to act in such a way as to trigger it?
 

aprof

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It sounds like an interesting game challenge which means it would be a great deal of fun and something to brag about if you can pull it off.

The concept is so bass-ackwards - lose everything so you can win - it hardly qualifies as an exploit. Especially since it doesn't seem like it would be guaranteed you could pull it off.

It has very little to say for it history-wise. The Sultan would hardly listen to his Vizier were he to suggest such a strategy, so it's purely gamer.

I say go for it Memnon - and keep notes for an AAR! :)

This idea makes me wonder at the wisdom of all the "Byzantium" event suggestions which include moving the Ottoman capital to Ankara when Greece takes Constantinople. In that case, I'd say its an exploit to let the Greeks take Istanbul - you'd lose a lot less.
 

Memnon

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november said:
So, in your eyes this isn’t a desperate strategy but a potentially winning one. Can you reliably expect Russia to act in such a way as to trigger it?
Well, it occured to me that I could conquer my satellites early on, then just sell Russia all my Balkan provinces except for Istanbul, that way they'd just have to take my undefended capital to trigger the event. Heck, If I'm lucky, I can get some decent land out of them for the trades, not to mention cash to fund all that colonization.
 

november

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That may be fun. But I don’s see how you can *reliably* count on Russia to play ball. And if you sell the Balkans and they don’t bite, then what?
 

Memnon

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november said:
That may be fun. But I don’s see how you can *reliably* count on Russia to play ball. And if you sell the Balkans and they don’t bite, then what?
What do you mean "then what?" It's pretty simple. The Tsar event can fire from 1836 to 1920, I believe, so all it would require would be one war against Russia to pull it off. I can't see how that would be hard to do.

And if for some reason it doesn't work, well, there's always the surrender button... :D
 

Rensslaer

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AAR!

Go Memnon!

Go Turks!

Oh, I mean... Go Russia! THEN Go Turks!

Rensselaer
 

Lamprey

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I'd say it would work, but it's not needed to win and definitely needlessly complicated. Sure, it does give a way to grant statehood to China/India provinces that you conquer - but if you conquer China or India, you've won anyway. Even if you only conquer some, not all, you just use the huge population for soldiers to and draw taxes from and go conquer Europe to win.

Although it would allow you to give the OE an ungodly amount of industry points.
 

Memnon

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Lamprey said:
I'd say it would work, but it's not needed to win and definitely needlessly complicated. Sure, it does give a way to grant statehood to China/India provinces that you conquer - but if you conquer China or India, you've won anyway. Even if you only conquer some, not all, you just use the huge population for soldiers to and draw taxes from and go conquer Europe to win.

Although it would allow you to give the OE an ungodly amount of industry points.
See, that's exactly the point: Many of us, including me, can win with pretty much any European major these days. The trick is in coming up with ultra cool snazzy new ways to do it! :D
 

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An interesting idea although of most nations i think the ottomans "need" it the least since they have arabic culture they already have plenty of opportunities to make states.

I wonder if Paradox thought that event through. I mean if you deliberately plan it you will probably keep your forces intact. So you become uncivilized but if your prestige is high enough won't you just get the event that you civilize.

Does becoming uncivilized change your regular army or will your military and industry score stay the same. With at least 600 prestige you should get the civilizing event sometime sone :D

Nice idea Memnon ... hmmmm
 
Apr 5, 2004
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Well Memmon, great idea you have here. But then, as a VIP fan, I'm afraid i can't implement it. You know, the colonization blocking and stuff.
In vanilla vicky, which I haven't play for sometime now, nobody can say it cannot be done. :rolleyes: