• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Sunlg103

Second Lieutenant
49 Badges
Feb 6, 2018
119
335
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Even though the formation of Italy in reality was past eu4:s timeframe, it is a clear goal for many newer players. With this in mind it is really bad of Paradox to give them such garbage ideas as this will hamper new players in late game.

Lets take a look.

Traditions.png Traditions:+20% Global trade power+50% Improve relations

By the time you have united Italy you already control two (2!) of the three end nodes. As such you dont compete with anyone making 20% trade power basically useless. It is also counter intuitive with another idea, more on that later...

And after basically uniting northern Italy, if you havent died from coalitions already. You wont die now, when all you have left is cheap garbage land to expand into. 50% improve relations? No thanks.
Stability cost modifier.png Not a Geographical Construct

−10%
Stability cost modifier

Filler idea, saving you 10 adm points base. On a button you press like, once every 20 years. All it does is tricking new players to stab up beyond +1.
Infantry combat ability.png The Tradition of the Legion

+15%
Infantry combat ability

First of, the name... Tradition? Its the second idea. And it cant compete with Swedens or Prussias 20%. Although it is one of the more okayish ones in the idea set.
Galley cost.png Mare Nostrum

−15%
Galley cost+20% Galley combat ability

This one bugs me. Galleys are dirt cheap so galley cost does nothing. Everyone knows heavies dominate naval warefare so it will only trick new players and for old players it doesnt matter. It is also counter intuitive with the tradition of trade power which would have you build light ships. Could be tweaked to be heavy ship CA and naval Force limit instead.
National manpower modifier.png The Office of Censor

+33%
National manpower modifier

With the new merc rework you can basically hire infinite stacks of infantry (you're rich as Italy so it doesnt matter if it takes you over force limit) and then artillery is the only thing you need manpower for. Dead idea.
National tax modifier.png Italian Tax Reform

+15%
National tax modifier

Maybe okay att first, but production and trade income dominates late game. Should be buffed to 20% goods produced.
Prestige.png Heir to the Empire

+1
Yearly prestige

Really? The "Heir" to the Roman Empire gains +1? Filler idea that basically any nation has.
Core-creation cost.png The Path to Citizenship

−25%
Core-creation cost

This is the only good idea in the set. But it comes waaaay to late. You need it for uniting Italy, not afterwards.
Idea bonus.png Ambition:

+20%
Fort defense

Dead idea and hampers Italys military as you cant use it on the attack. As one of my favorite tag it doesnt even get discipline?

So there you have it. Looking forward to reading your suggestions on how to improve Italys ideas. Hopefully a dev will read after their summer holidays and buff. It's long overdue and got really nerfed in Emperor due to some great new idea sets.
 
  • 30
  • 14Haha
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Badesumofu

Field Marshal
70 Badges
Dec 1, 2016
4.457
1.000
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
This is some kind of joke thread, right? I kept waiting for the punch line but it never came. Italy's idea set is excellent. Manpower is more important than it ever has been unless you like dealing with unsplitable and unmergeable stacks of arbitrary size and composition. 20% trade power is excellent - there is a lot more to making money from trade than just controlling end nodes. 50% improve relations is still excellent although admittedly it does lose its impact as you get stronger. Strong enough to form Italy is still a long way from strong enough to not have to worry about coalitions at all ever again, though. Yes - there are some filler ideas in there, but that doesn't make it a bad idea set. For example, of the selectable idea groups, Admin is the strongest and yet it is full of filler ideas. Because you asses the value of idea sets/groups on what they provide overall, and overall Italy's national ideas are very, very strong.
 
  • 14Like
  • 6
Reactions:

Deliberus

Banned
9 Badges
Jun 22, 2020
560
1.473
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Is this some kind of joke? I was waiting for the inevitable remark at the end or /s but guess not...

Traditions.png Traditions:+20% Global trade power+50% Improve relations

+20% Global trade power is amazing not only because it increases your trade power in Venice and Genoa (end nodes that give a ton of money) but because it also transfers that trade power downstream which leads to even more money. 50% improve relations is only really needed in the early to mid game as by the time you get to the end game you won't so much as need allies.

Stability cost modifier.png Not a Geographical Construct

−10%
Stability cost modifier

Yep, filler idea

Infantry combat ability.png The Tradition of the Legion

+15%
Infantry combat ability

So...just because it's not as good as Sweden or Prussia (countries that will barely last or not form) these ideas are just "ok"?

Galley cost.png Mare Nostrum

−15%
Galley cost+20% Galley combat ability

It's the little things that matter. Sure they're dirt cheap when you buy about 10. But you're going to be competing against the Ottos in the east and you're going to have to get every galley you can. Also "Everyone knows heavies dominate naval warfare"...just...really? Would love to see how that goes down in the Agean sea when you fight against the Ottos.

National manpower modifier.png The Office of Censor

+33%
National manpower modifier

Might just be a troll at this point because Manpower and Professionalism are the biggest and most important factors in winning wars by mid to late game.

You're just going to be missing out on all the goodies:
  • +10% Shock damage.png Shock damage dealt
  • +10% Land fire damage.png Fire damage dealt
  • +20% Siege ability.png Siege ability
  • -50% Regiment Drill loss (this applies to losses due to replacement manpower such as combat casualties or attrition and passive decay)
  • May build supply depots
  • May refill garrison
  • Regain manpower when disbanding
  • −50% Reduced morale damage taken by reserve
  • −50% General cost
  • +100%Army drill gain modifier
National tax modifier.png Italian Tax Reform

+15%
National tax modifier

Great for early to mid game but does los it's luster to the end game

Prestige.png Heir to the Empire

+1
Yearly prestige

Yep, filler

Core-creation cost.png The Path to Citizenship

−25%
Core-creation cost

Best idea as you said

Idea bonus.png Ambition:

+20%
Fort defense

While dead on the offensive, it's great when you have opponents that are on opposite sides of your empire
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

klingonadmiral

Field Marshal
49 Badges
Sep 15, 2014
2.918
4.512
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
50% improve relations is only really needed in the early to mid game as by the time you get to the end game you won't so much as need allies.

It has still value lategame as you will have subjects and need to improve relations to overcome the -100 opinion from being a hegemon. By speeding up this process, you can use your diplomats more efficiently.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

BlazeKnight_

Captain
19 Badges
Aug 14, 2018
394
1.333
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
This might or might not be a joke thread, but I'll say the unpopular and say that Italian ideas, imo, are not that good, especially compared to their neighbors (at least in multiplayer). Big problem with Italian NIs is that they have no discipline, fix that and it is more respectable. Only 15% ICA for land quality is not that good, especially when you consider that ICA is one of the worst combat modifiers when isolated. Compare this to French 20% Morale, Spanish +1 Art Fire & 15% Morale, not to mention literally nearly every European major gets 5% discipline, an idea absurdly strong compared to other NIs Paradox likes to give. 15% ICA is equal to about 3.75 effective discipline, so Italian NIs are definitely lackluster on the quality side compared to their neighbors France, Spain, Prussia.

Italian NIs also lacks any real economic ideas: Tax is useless, even if it is 15%, and Trade Power is pretty bad as well. 33% Manpower is great, but manpower is already extremely plentiful in this game thanks to slacken recruitment or even just hiring massive infantry-only merc stacks. 25% CCR is pretty meaningless in MP: your expansion is tied to the players in the game, not your ADM points, plus Paper mana is easily the worst of the 3 manas and you already don't have anything to spend it on. I shouldn't need to explain why improve relations modifier is bad in MP.

Italian NIs are great for Singleplayer though, since they are blob ideas. Improve relations affects AE tick, so 50% is nice. Although imo, looking at ideas from an SP perspective is pretty meaningless since even on Very Hard AI cannot build proper armies/take good idea groups.
 

enKage

Major
40 Badges
Mar 15, 2015
559
255
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
After:
Russia is garbage
Mamluks is garbage
and many other stupid threads demanding ideas rework, I strongly tend to post a thread about Yuan, Rajputana, Delhi, mughals, Ottomans, Poland.... just to show how absurd these threads are.

Oh wait.... Sunlg103 already did it and so many people took it seriously


Hey moderators, when would appendix to rules come giving permban for such threads? Would I be on time with Rajputana?
 
  • 2Haha
Reactions:

Sunlg103

Second Lieutenant
49 Badges
Feb 6, 2018
119
335
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
After:
Russia is garbage
Mamluks is garbage
and many other stupid threads demanding ideas rework, I strongly tend to post a thread about Yuan, Rajputana, Delhi, mughals, Ottomans, Poland.... just to show how absurd these threads are.

Oh wait.... Sunlg103 already did it and so many people took it seriously


Hey moderators, when would appendix to rules come giving permban for such threads? Would I be on time with Rajputana?

Go for it!

Anyway, the real punchline of this thread is that there are so many complaints about ideas not containing top tier military ideas in both dev diary comments and original threads that people cant be sure if you are joking when suggesting that one of the best (SP) ideas (and easy to obtain for newer players) are garbage. (Wow that was a long sentence)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Nyrael

Field Marshal
82 Badges
Jul 20, 2008
5.859
4.992
32
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • 7
  • 2Like
Reactions: