Italy's focus tree is terrible.

[Novacat]

If you want a terrible focus tree then play as the US.

Hahahaha... no, the US focus tree does screw the US Badly in the beginning, but it is by far the best lategame focus tree, bar none. Six technology slots, a rediculous amount of bonuses through spirits, and other things. The only focus tree that might be better is the British one.

I wrote some guides on National Focuses a long time ago, the information is old but is, 99% of the time, still correct.
Here is one for National Spirits
Here is one for technology bonuses

As you can see, Italy's focus tree is actually the best in the game when it comes to technology bonuses. This allows Italy to get an amazing tech lead in almost anything, especially when it comes to navy.

The only objectively bad focus trees, of the old ones (I have not looked at the DLC ones, holding off on DLC until Paradox fixes the game), is Poland and France. Poland's suffers from being a watered down generic with nothing to show for it, and France is just a pile of maluses with the late-game bonuses being weaksauce.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

I am not sure how that fits with Article 4 of the Act: 'No Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom passed after the commencement of this Act shall extend, or be deemed to extend, to a Dominion as part of the law of that Dominion, unless it is expressly declared in that Act that that Dominion has requested, and consented to, the enactment thereof.'

Though I am not a constitutional lawyer. The Free State always considered the 1921 Treaty as preventing Britain legislating for the Free State anyway.

K

The Free State may think that, but as a function of United Kingdom Law, the Imperial Parliament is incapable of limiting itself. I remember this from a ruling from Lord Denning (think it was Denning) in the mid to late 20th Century. Therein we have a problem of enforcibility, but from a game perspective it would be a valid casus beli for war. Remember this is the same law that argues the King cannot commit a crime. They executed the last men who tried to claim that the king could be tried, oddly to enforce the Law of England on the King of England is illegal because as a simple matter of law, the King could do no wrong. So forcing Ireland to choose to either surrender or be invaded should be a valid focus imho. PS, I am a Historian who has dealt extensively with the English Constitution, so not quite a constitutional lawyer but getting there

 

[Khevenhuller]

The Free State may think that, but as a function of United Kingdom Law, the Imperial Parliament is incapable of limiting itself. I remember this from a ruling from Lord Denning (think it was Denning) in the mid to late 20th Century. Therein we have a problem of enforcibility, but from a game perspective it would be a valid casus beli for war. Remember this is the same law that argues the King cannot commit a crime. They executed the last men who tried to claim that the king could be tried, oddly to enforce the Law of England on the King of England is illegal because as a simple matter of law, the King could do no wrong. So forcing Ireland to choose to either surrender or be invaded should be a valid focus imho. PS, I am a Historian who has dealt extensively with the English Constitution, so not quite a constitutional lawyer but getting there

I am afraid I am a mere Naval Historian so you certainly outrank me on this one. I am still unclear how this sits with the Statute in general because it does attempt to do that, limit Parliament by an agreement with it's Dominions. I think Australia (?) had to ask the Crown to declare war on Germany for it because of the Statute. In HOI4 I doubt we are going to have players waiting for Lord Denning to come up with a ruling, or whichever old git in fancy dress who claims never to have heard of the Charleston you could turn to in the thirties...

K

 

[Secret Master]

Because you can never, ever, have too much oil?

Eh, it's a question of ease of access. And this is Italy we are talking about. Maybe her weak sauce industry can't make good use of all that oil.

 

[hkrommel]

Hahahaha... no, the US focus tree does screw the US Badly in the beginning, but it is by far the best lategame focus tree, bar none. Six technology slots, a rediculous amount of bonuses through spirits, and other things. The only focus tree that might be better is the British one.

I wrote some guides on National Focuses a long time ago, the information is old but is, 99% of the time, still correct.
Here is one for National Spirits
Here is one for technology bonuses

As you can see, Italy's focus tree is actually the best in the game when it comes to technology bonuses. This allows Italy to get an amazing tech lead in almost anything, especially when it comes to navy.

The only objectively bad focus trees, of the old ones (I have not looked at the DLC ones, holding off on DLC until Paradox fixes the game), is Poland and France. Poland's suffers from being a watered down generic with nothing to show for it, and France is just a pile of maluses with the late-game bonuses being weaksauce.

Half the tree is useless embargoes and diplomatic actions. The quality of the tree is not judged solely on the end bonuses (which most games don't survive to see anyways), but on how immersive/nonimmersive, interesting/boring the tree is as well. The US tree fails hard on the later two counts.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Half the tree is useless embargoes and diplomatic actions. The quality of the tree is not judged solely on the end bonuses (which most games don't survive to see anyways), but on how immersive/nonimmersive, interesting/boring the tree is as well. The US tree fails hard on the later two counts.

I do not get the impression, as the USA, I am balancing between Isolationists and Interventionists as I need the votes of the former to achieve domestic aims, but I know that the long-term interests of the USA involve more and more of the latter. I agree it just seems pallid and rather lifeless.

K

 

[mursolini]

Do you always join the strongest guy in the room, or there might be other factors involved (like, I don't know, shared vision and common goals)?

In case you chose between a National Sosialist faction and a fashist faction strength should be the determining thing, as both ideologies are pretty same.

 

[ltccone]

Eh, it's a question of ease of access. And this is Italy we are talking about. Maybe her weak sauce industry can't make good use of all that oil.

I have always been able to use all of my oil, no matter who I play. And if you can't use it as Italy, trade the excess oil to Germany.

 

[hkrommel]

I do not get the impression, as the USA, I am balancing between Isolationists and Interventionists as I need the votes of the former to achieve domestic aims, but I know that the long-term interests of the USA involve more and more of the latter. I agree it just seems pallid and rather lifeless.

Exactly, it's not like there's nothing to do as the US domestically, but the lack of political depth in this game makes it so.

 

[Tarnoyan Warrior]

Hahahaha... no, the US focus tree does screw the US Badly in the beginning, but it is by far the best lategame focus tree, bar none. Six technology slots, a rediculous amount of bonuses through spirits, and other things. The only focus tree that might be better is the British one.

I wrote some guides on National Focuses a long time ago, the information is old but is, 99% of the time, still correct.
Here is one for National Spirits
Here is one for technology bonuses

As you can see, Italy's focus tree is actually the best in the game when it comes to technology bonuses. This allows Italy to get an amazing tech lead in almost anything, especially when it comes to navy.

The only objectively bad focus trees, of the old ones (I have not looked at the DLC ones, holding off on DLC until Paradox fixes the game), is Poland and France. Poland's suffers from being a watered down generic with nothing to show for it, and France is just a pile of maluses with the late-game bonuses being weaksauce.

It's just boring, that's all

 

[cat013]

In case you chose between a National Sosialist faction and a fashist faction strength should be the determining thing, as both ideologies are pretty same.

You do realize that ideologically defined "factions" exist only in one extremely poorly designed game that shall not be mentioned?

 

[mursolini]

You do realize that ideologically defined "factions" exist only in one extremely poorly designed game that shall not be mentioned?

You do realize that "shared vision" is ideology?

Maybe, don't argue for things you don't want in game.

 

[cat013]

You do realize that "shared vision" is ideology?

Not really, it isn't. Unless you want to claim that two things that look somewhat alike in some extremely broad sense are identical. And then there is a question of common goals, so you fail at wiggling your way out of this.

 

[Novacat]

It's just boring, that's all

That is a valid argument, but is a valid argument for most non-DLC focus trees in the game, but please, never, ever say that the bonuses are bad.

You do realize that ideologically defined "factions" exist only in one extremely poorly designed game that shall not be mentioned?

If it is the same game I am thinking of, at the moment it is better designed than HOI4... A least it is a functional game, with the few gamebreaking issues left easily fixed via modding.

 

[Gorgo Primus]

I just find it weird that there is nothing in Italy's tree about Austria, even though they almost went to war with Germany over it irl.

 

[virre]

Every major tree is terrible and lackluster. But prio seems to be on minor nations.

 

[Khevenhuller]

I just find it weird that there is nothing in Italy's tree about Austria, even though they almost went to war with Germany over it irl.

PDX may have considered that, as we start in 1936 not 1934, that train had already left the station. If you were being tightly historical, that would be true. But I cannot help feel that, given the internal tensions within the Italian Fascist party - Are the Germans part of the solution or part of the problem? - it really should be there. If an Italian player, even with a historical backdrop, chooses to try and shuffle away from Germany and towards Britain (and the British were making efforts to encourage this) he has difficulty in doing that, although it is historically plausible.

I suppose that 'excuse word': balance is what people will point to. If Italy chooses permanent neutrality (never mind making waves over Austria) then the Germans cannot win.

K

 

[19mila92]

Every major tree is terrible and lackluster. But prio seems to be on minor nations.

Because PDX cna charge money for new focus trees while would be difficult ask money for a revamp of something that is already in

 

[Secret Master]

I suppose that 'excuse word': balance is what people will point to. If Italy chooses permanent neutrality (never mind making waves over Austria) then the Germans cannot win.

Well, that's why historical AI exists, though. If you don't want Italy objecting to Anschluss, turn on historical AI. It's the same thing with Rhineland and Munich. Opposing those can really screw Germany.

The real reasons for no potential focuses over Austria are, I suspect, a combination of testing time, number of focuses in general (if the Italian tree has too many, you'd better believe people would complain that other countries are not being represented), and maybe an issue with scripting a potential crisis in a sensible way. The situation with Austria isn't quite the same as the Munich crisis or the Spanish Civil War.

There's also another possibility, since the game starts in January of 1936. The Stresa Front is basically dead at this point. The AGNA has been signed by the time the game starts. The Hoare-Laval Pact is dead. Because of these reasons, and because the fighting in Ethiopia has already started, the developers may see that it's pointless to give Italy and room to maneuver into the British camp and oppose Germany. And if that move is seen as pointless at the point the game starts, they might see it as also pointless to let Italy oppose intervention in Austria.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Well, that's why historical AI exists, though. If you don't want Italy objecting to Anschluss, turn on historical AI. It's the same thing with Rhineland and Munich. Opposing those can really screw Germany.

The real reasons for no potential focuses over Austria are, I suspect, a combination of testing time, number of focuses in general (if the Italian tree has too many, you'd better believe people would complain that other countries are not being represented), and maybe an issue with scripting a potential crisis in a sensible way. The situation with Austria isn't quite the same as the Munich crisis or the Spanish Civil War.

There's also another possibility, since the game starts in January of 1936. The Stresa Front is basically dead at this point. The AGNA has been signed by the time the game starts. The Hoare-Laval Pact is dead. Because of these reasons, and because the fighting in Ethiopia has already started, the developers may see that it's pointless to give Italy and room to maneuver into the British camp and oppose Germany. And if that move is seen as pointless at the point the game starts, they might see it as also pointless to let Italy oppose intervention in Austria.

I think, given some of the incredibly odd political options available in NF trees, Italy swinging away from Germany is far more realistic. But, well, best thing is for a modder to take it on...

K