Italy's focus tree is terrible.

[Stolen Rutters]

the AI most of the time refuses to join your faction and goes for the Axis.

There is a path that makes the Italian faction more desirable, grow faster. After some runs I figured out that you annex Yugoslavia and Greece like normal, but then justify and conquer Hungary instead of waiting for the France war. It seems that the moment I take Hungary and become Romania's neighbor, I become their preferred choice. Justify and conquer Spain too, because you can. After taking Greece and France, turkey tends to want to join you instead of the axis. The moment you make peace with the allies and end up bordering Venezuela they request to join. If you were working on switching the United States to fascist, they request the day after you annex Canada.

tl;dr I am around 80% confident there is neighbor bonus that can help you, not 100% sure because it could be a war vs peace modifier that switches the choice. If I make sure my Italian faction is more powerful than the axis AND I push my border to Romania, they seem to join Italy like clockwork. It's only when I pursue other targets that Romania seems to jump into the axis.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Well, the loss of Malta has been a pain in the arse for most of the war. I have already profusely apologized to the rest of the Allies for my inexcusable failure. And the Italians have made me pay for it by using the air base to bolster their air coverage. (Well, at least until Italy ran out of planes.)

We lost Gibraltar when Franco joined the Axis in 1941 (but I beat back Italian landings earlier). But Egypt, despite bitter fighting and clever Italian landings, held. We did the back and forth thing in Libya. I took Benghazi, then they retook it after awhile with German help, then I stopped them at El-Alamein, then when the US entered the war, we pushed them out of the critical oil area.

At this point in 1942, though, North Africa is more or less secure. The Allies control Tunisia, and we're mopping up the remnants of Vichy and Spain in Morocco.

But taking and controlling that oil has been very useful. I only have a finite number of CIC with which to buy oil and aluminum, so adding even 16-20 units has made a real difference economically. If it did not exist, I'd probably need to rethink my budget.

The irony is that they spent their time looking for oil in East Africa, not Libya...

K

 

[cat013]

People complain here all the time about the ai doing stupid diplomatic moves, do you really want the ai to join weak alliances when a more powerful option is available?

Do you always join the strongest guy in the room, or there might be other factors involved (like, I don't know, shared vision and common goals)?

 

[hkrommel]

If you want a terrible focus tree then play as the US.

 

[inteljoe]

I was playing as Italy, going for a new Roman Empire and stuff, but while I was playing, I noticed that italys tree is garbage. It has two industrial focuses, where as the generic one has 6, the army tree is small, and the Air Force tree is tiny. I did the fortification effort, but because I was at war with France and they had pushed me back, the forts came in where the old border was. Did a team of Italian engineers sneak behind enemy lines to build forts for the French?All you have to do is have a check to see whether the Italians own the border state, Or put the forts on the immediate border with the French. If the generic tree is the standard, then Italys tree is really bad. The only thing that partially saves it is the ability to do interesting political things. I know there was a thread on this a few days ago, but the majors focus trees are ridiculously Uninteresting compared to the new ones in the dlc. We need paradox to fix almost all of the majors focus trees imo

You spelled France wrong...

 

[ltccone]

I feel like changing the thread's title to "Italy is terrible."

I think her focus tree is fine for what it is.

Some NFs are situational, though. The oil in Libya focus can be a real problem, since it can be easily taken by the British. In my current MP game, I'm so thankful that the Italians ran the oil NF. It's provided Britain with oil for about 35% of the war's duration.

(The Italians got Malta, though. )

That's the difference between SP and MP. It would be hard to lose Libyan oil in SP.

 

[Tarnoyan Warrior]

You spelled France wrong...

What? It doesn't seem that way.

 

[Secret Master]

That's the difference between SP and MP. It would be hard to lose Libyan oil in SP.

Well, and that why I called is situational.

Of course, in SP, why prospect for oil? Just take the Middle East as Italy.

 

[BaddoSpirito]

Joke? Italy has the best focus tree in the game.

 

[inteljoe]

What? It doesn't seem that way.

Italy may not be the best, France is worse. But I am sure we could spend the end of time debating this.

 

[Meglok]

If you want a terrible focus tree then play as the US.

Agree totally. No flavor or feeling of immersion. I keep hoping that the HOI3 stars and stripes dlc will be imported whenever they upgrade the Pacific.

 

[Tarnoyan Warrior]

Italy may not be the best, France is worse. But I am sure we could spend the end of time debating this.

I am so confused

 

[Tarnoyan Warrior]

Btw, looking back and having played other nations, I can say that It's the best one by comparison, but that I still don't like it, or any of them really. But I probably shouldn't be posting here so that this thread can die and I won't have to think about how bad it was

 

[Zarathustra_the]

The British Tree is as boring as all hell.. So much so that I have found Vanilla+ to be all but mandatory for actually enjoying the game... But seriously, having a UK tree without the ability to seek to renegotiate the status of the empire? Without having Ireland as part of the Commonwealth? Without an ability to conquer Ireland and undo home-rule? I mean seriously, how bloody limited is that tree...

 

[ltccone]

Well, and that why I called is situational.

Of course, in SP, why prospect for oil? Just take the Middle East as Italy.

Because you can never, ever, have too much oil?

 

[Zarathustra_the]

Because you can never, ever, have too much oil?

Quote for Truth! Sing it Sister!

 

[Khevenhuller]

The British Tree is as boring as all hell.. So much so that I have found Vanilla+ to be all but mandatory for actually enjoying the game... But seriously, having a UK tree without the ability to seek to renegotiate the status of the empire? Without having Ireland as part of the Commonwealth? Without an ability to conquer Ireland and undo home-rule? I mean seriously, how bloody limited is that tree...

Under the Statute of Westminster the UK had renounced it's right to legislate for the Free State. One possible 're-negotiation' for the rest would be to push for an Imperial Federation, which had been floating around for years but was killed off at the Imperial Conference of 1937. Another option for Ireland would be to retain the 'Treaty Ports' that were surrendered in 1938...although the game has issues with handling the Destroyers for Bases issue so this would, I think, face similar technical obstacles.

If you tried to undo 'Home Rule' or bribe the Free State with Ulster in return for joining the war (another option i have seen floated) these should create enormous problems. A huge civil war in the Ireland in the first case, as well as a massive drop in British relationships overseas particularly with the USA. In the latter case severe political turmoil in Britain coupled with more civil unrest in Ulster that the Irish army, given its size and kit, would find it tough to contain.

It is just the issue that 'all decisions have consequences'. I worry with Focus Trees that have a simple treaty dynamic with another country that they can choose but does not trigger a choice in the other partner, or maybe even awareness. This is particularly an issue in MP games. HOI4 just does these sorts of things very poorly. So if you take 'Imperial Federation' and choose it, then all the Dominions should have a choice triggered to say yes or no. The reason it did not happen is that none of the leaders were in favour and Britain was lukewarm to the idea generally.

There should be triggers for things that other countries do that affect you, like trade embargoes, elections or choices that do impact upon your own relationship with them. It is not just Britain here, but most countries that suffer from this issue.

K

 

[RELee]

Mussolini ha sempre ragione

I know just how he feels.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

Under the Statute of Westminster the UK had renounced it's right to legislate for the Free State. One possible 're-negotiation' for the rest would be to push for an Imperial Federation, which had been floating around for years but was killed off at the Imperial Conference of 1937. Another option for Ireland would be to retain the 'Treaty Ports' that were surrendered in 1938...although the game has issues with handling the Destroyers for Bases issue so this would, I think, face similar technical obstacles.

If you tried to undo 'Home Rule' or bribe the Free State with Ulster in return for joining the war (another option i have seen floated) these should create enormous problems. A huge civil war in the Ireland in the first case, as well as a massive drop in British relationships overseas particularly with the USA. In the latter case severe political turmoil in Britain coupled with more civil unrest in Ulster that the Irish army, given its size and kit, would find it tough to contain.

It is just the issue that 'all decisions have consequences'. I worry with Focus Trees that have a simple treaty dynamic with another country that they can choose but does not trigger a choice in the other partner, or maybe even awareness. This is particularly an issue in MP games. HOI4 just does these sorts of things very poorly. So if you take 'Imperial Federation' and choose it, then all the Dominions should have a choice triggered to say yes or no. The reason it did not happen is that none of the leaders were in favour and Britain was lukewarm to the idea generally.

There should be triggers for things that other countries do that affect you, like trade embargoes, elections or choices that do impact upon your own relationship with them. It is not just Britain here, but most countries that suffer from this issue.

K

I am more than aware of the historical realities. However you make a mistake. The Imperial Parliament maintained it's power to this day to legislate for the dominions. As I recall from the House of Lords though, it was believed to be in effect null and void as none of the dominions would hold to it. That said, it would enable interesting decision points, especially if doing the action would generate claims.

As I recall even as late as 1967 it was still asserted as legally possibly for Westminster to legislate for the dominion governments, because of the basic principle, that no parliament can limit it's own authority, and that no power is more sovereign than Parliament.

 

[Khevenhuller]

I am more than aware of the historical realities. However you make a mistake. The Imperial Parliament maintained it's power to this day to legislate for the dominions. As I recall from the House of Lords though, it was believed to be in effect null and void as none of the dominions would hold to it. That said, it would enable interesting decision points, especially if doing the action would generate claims.

As I recall even as late as 1967 it was still asserted as legally possibly for Westminster to legislate for the dominion governments, because of the basic principle, that no parliament can limit it's own authority, and that no power is more sovereign than Parliament.

I am not sure how that fits with Article 4 of the Act: 'No Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom passed after the commencement of this Act shall extend, or be deemed to extend, to a Dominion as part of the law of that Dominion, unless it is expressly declared in that Act that that Dominion has requested, and consented to, the enactment thereof.'

Though I am not a constitutional lawyer. The Free State always considered the 1921 Treaty as preventing Britain legislating for the Free State anyway.

K