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Tarnoyan Warrior

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I was playing as Italy, going for a new Roman Empire and stuff, but while I was playing, I noticed that italys tree is garbage. It has two industrial focuses, where as the generic one has 6, the army tree is small, and the Air Force tree is tiny. I did the fortification effort, but because I was at war with France and they had pushed me back, the forts came in where the old border was. Did a team of Italian engineers sneak behind enemy lines to build forts for the French?All you have to do is have a check to see whether the Italians own the border state, Or put the forts on the immediate border with the French. If the generic tree is the standard, then Italys tree is really bad. The only thing that partially saves it is the ability to do interesting political things. I know there was a thread on this a few days ago, but the majors focus trees are ridiculously Uninteresting compared to the new ones in the dlc. We need paradox to fix almost all of the majors focus trees imo
 

Gyrvendal

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The Italy tree is actually one of the best IMO. Italy is not supposed to be a powerhouse given its real life performance in ww2. Yet the tree gives them every opportunity of becoming a superpower and surpassing Germany anyway.
There are a few issues and bugs like the fort issue you mentioned, on that we agree. Other problems are :
- You are forced to befriend Bulgaria even if you don't want to.
- The Vichy France event robs you of southern France even if you did all the heavy lifting.

On the other hand the tech bonuses you get are really good compared to other majors such as France or US IMO
 

browd

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- The Vichy France event robs you of southern France even if you did all the heavy lifting.

Only if you haven't taken Paris. Since you can join the war right after Germany DOWs Poland, you can push your army through the Alps and bum-rush France with little difficulty. In my last Italy game, I capitulated France before Germany even DOWed Belgium. That gave me Paris and no Vichy event.
 

The-False-Being26

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Honestly Italy might have my favorite tree. Italy has several diplomatic options and very good tech bonuses.

Also the generic tree may have six industrial focas, but all of those except for one only give one factory. Italys two focuses give 8 factories 4 civilian and 4 military PLUS the powerful Italian highways focus which give tones of free infrastructure(I think it's the best infrastructure focus in the game).
 
Last edited:

cat013

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The weirdest thing about Italian tree is that German friendship with Spain focus overrides that Spanish war trauma, but Italian for some reason doesn't - despite extremely harsh conditions. Requirement of ongoing war to complete - wtf??? German ability to magically snatch Austria and Turkey from you also doesn't help.
 

War Emblem

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The Italian tree gives you some great choices, for example you can make your Navy the best in the world rather easily. I really like the Italian tree, my only issue with Italy is that it's too hard to defend with current naval invasion rules and requires more micromanagement than I want to give a country. The tree itself is very good though, in my opinion.
 

Tarnoyan Warrior

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I will admit that italys tree gives it flavor and variety, but I feel like the options are limited compared to the new trees that are coming out. As a person that plays with mods for focus trees for minors, I feel disappointed with the majors focus trees. To be honest Italy, Poland, and France have the coolest focus trees, and that's because you get to do cool, challenging ahistorical alliances. But Italy doesn't have as much wiggle room as some other nations. They don't have a communist or democratic path, even though Mussolini rose to power out of fear of a communist revolution. On the other hand, France gets a part of its focus tree to become fascist, even without any fascist support in their nation. I probably should have titled this thread "majors have bad focus trees". Really mods are the reason I still play this game
 

CommanderHolt

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The Diplomatic part of the Focus Tree for Italy I can agree is rather underwhelming. You only influence them to accept Fascism in which especially in Spain's case can lead them to being sniped by Germany instead of you who wasted time Befriending them. Along with Spain requiring you have a limited focus active while the civil war is ongoing and then requiring France to be beaten before you can pursue an alliance means that its often not feasible to ally with them and by extension, Portugal before the former gets drawn into the Axis.

The lack of any additional NI also is a drag if you don't go with Germany.

However, the Industrial and research part of the tree is pretty awesome! In just 3 Focus you get 4 civillian and 6 military factories (Industrial Effort II + Army Primacy) and you get 4 Dockyards via Mare Nostrum. Also pretty sure it one of the few trees where you can actually get free oil and rubber through focuses. Your land research beyond Land Doctrine is meh, but Air and Naval have plenty of bonuses to keep you going.

A good amount of Major Nations trees are rather bad, but Italy has a rather good one.
 

The Balbinater

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- You are forced to befriend Bulgaria even if you don't want to.

actually I thought this was one of the more historically correct aspects of Italy's tree.

Bulgaria is a defeated WWI power with current ambitions to further their own claims. It is centrally located in the Balkans, not unlike taking up the prominent middle squares of a chess board, if you were to view the Balkans from that light. Further, once Italy takes Albania, working with Bulgaria makes putting the entire Balkan region into an actually obtainable long term goal for Italy.

don't forget that real life Bulgaria absolutely hated their immediate neighbors, and intrigued against them previously, resulting in the First and Second Balkan Wars. I think that an alliance between them and Italy for Balkan hegemony is definitely a real life what-if scenario.
 

JackAlNXT

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Bulgaria is a defeated WWI power with current ambitions to further their own claims. It is centrally located in the Balkans, not unlike taking up the prominent middle squares of a chess board, if you were to view the Balkans from that light. Further, once Italy takes Albania, working with Bulgaria makes putting the entire Balkan region into an actually obtainable long term goal for Italy.

don't forget that real life Bulgaria absolutely hated their immediate neighbors, and intrigued against them previously, resulting in the First and Second Balkan Wars. I think that an alliance between them and Italy for Balkan hegemony is definitely a real life what-if scenario.

And if I can just add a little tidbit: The wife of Tsar Boris III was Queen Giovanna of Savoy, the daughter of Italian King Victor Emmanuel III. So there is a family connection as well.
 

The Balbinater

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And if I can just add a little tidbit: The wife of Tsar Boris III was Queen Giovanna of Savoy, the daughter of Italian King Victor Emmanuel III. So there is a family connection as well.

somebody is paying attention to history! well done!
 

Sir Garnet

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Italy's focus tree is highly structured and canalized, and is certainly frustrating when a more agile Germany can derail Italian foreign policy. The tree does constrain the player in several ways, but many a focus has a bundle of bonuses attached rather than just a single one, giving the Italian tree more more substance than may appear at first.

Italy does not have a lot of Army focuses, but most of them deliver multiple rather than just single rewards. If Italy chooses to focus in this direction, the tree does allow a quick modernization of the Regio Esercito to bring it up to date for the late 1930s and in strategic areas to 1941, though beyond that it will need to research up the hard way.

Although the supreme warlord and decision-maker and skilled in political and diplomatic maneuver, Mussolini did not demonstrate any grasp of military affairs or military realities, a face most evident in connection with the planning, preparation and execution of the Greek campaign, when many deficiences were revealed (and concealed). Historically, the army's usefulness was as a symbol and tool of Fascist political and diplomatic power, measured then in divisions and battleships. In material and policy terms, the Regio Esercito received rather shabby treatment from the regime and the rival fiefdoms that made up Italian military industry.

From the '20s the modernity of the glamorous air and naval forces was offered as proof of the progressive benefits of fascism, and the air and naval efforts indeed produced forces that were numerous and up to date - for 1936. Thereafter they lagged behind the other powers due to divergent priorities and the weakness of Italian industry. However, the Italian player interested in reviving these combat services and overall military strength is aided by air and naval focuses that here again bless Italy with multiple bonuses sufficient to drive the Regia Marina and the Regia Aeronautica forward into the early 1940s.


Italy typically starts the game with the with the Ethiopian War Logistics focus, which helps supply the Ethiopian war but also leads directly to another research slot and 8 factories in between, with a following option for forts or oil exploration. As a look at the tree shows, many a focus provides more than just one bonus - there are frequently two or more, which makes the Italian tree much more rewarding than it appears on the surface.

Victory in Ethiopia unlocks the Triumph in Africa focus, which opens the large diplomatic tree that expedites an Italian Empire built either on cultivating friendship or the stark authority of Fascist force. This can bring Yugoslavia, Spain, Portugal, the Balkans and Turkey into a Novus Imperium Romanum instead of a Teutonic Pact of Steel. This tree also enables building relations with Germany and Japan and offers casus belli against France and/or Britain. All these options must be timed and navigated carefully as other countries have focus options as well that can interfere.

A 5 or 6-year plan can make use of a wide range of this range of focus options. That is enough time to succeed or fail in Italian imperial ambitions. Or Italy can fall in behind Germany with the Pact of Steel - a simpler and easier course than striking out alone. It is simpler, but the tensions between different potential commitments remain. The army, navy, and air force compete for resources, as do the goals of bringing Iberia and the Balkans into the empire and overseas ambitions in North Africa and East Africa, where Italy continues to seek its just rewards denied it after the Great War. Jumping back and forth between these choices is likely to be problematic. Prioritization and planning are needed.


 

--Yigito123--

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There's one problem with Italy I think that practically makes founding your own faction pointless;
In my experience, every single nation that turns fascist seem to immediately get the "Would rather join the Axis" -1000 for inviting them to your faction, which makes me want to bang my head onto the table every time I spend years influencing fascism in them to turn them fascist and that happens.
 

Meglok

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There's one problem with Italy I think that practically makes founding your own faction pointless;
In my experience, every single nation that turns fascist seem to immediately get the "Would rather join the Axis" -1000 for inviting them to your faction, which makes me want to bang my head onto the table every time I spend years influencing fascism in them to turn them fascist and that happens.

Well, you are never going to get Hungary as Italy, just too easy for Germany to co-opt them. So the question there is do you conquer and puppet, annex, or ignore.
Bulgaria you should get if you work on it.
Yugoslavia, Albania, and Greece are conquests.
Nationalist Spain is likely a target if going Italy First. Getting them in the alliance usually requires you to be doing much better than Germany, ie, you took France and Low Countries and takes too long. Easier to conquer and puppet.
So that leaves Romania. Can't touch them until they flip unless you want war with Allies and usually they immediately join Axis.

The diplomacy coding does definitely need work to improve the what if? sandbox play.
 

Khevenhuller

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Remember:

Mussolini ha sempre ragione

Keep repeating that to yourself and all will be well....
 

--Yigito123--

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Well, you are never going to get Hungary as Italy, just too easy for Germany to co-opt them. So the question there is do you conquer and puppet, annex, or ignore.
Bulgaria you should get if you work on it.
Yugoslavia, Albania, and Greece are conquests.
Nationalist Spain is likely a target if going Italy First. Getting them in the alliance usually requires you to be doing much better than Germany, ie, you took France and Low Countries and takes too long. Easier to conquer and puppet.
So that leaves Romania. Can't touch them until they flip unless you want war with Allies and usually they immediately join Axis.

The diplomacy coding does definitely need work to improve the what if? sandbox play.
Well, what's the point of creating your own faction if you're just going to puppet everything? I could do that without a faction or as part of the Axis too. It just feels pointless to create extra factions in general is what I'm getting at, because unless you're doing better than the Axis (Or Allies or Comintern if you're other ideologies) or they're destroyed, the AI most of the time refuses to join your faction and goes for the Axis (Again, or Allies or Comintern). If you're going to puppet them, you might as well not bother with a faction.

This is even with countries like Bulgaria and Romania, which Italy's focuses for actually give them a + to Fascist diplomacy, which sometimes can even screw you up because they weren't planning on joining the Axis before and now they do and have a -1000 to joining your faction. I had that happen to me before and just ended up raging and declaring war on Germany after Spain, Romania and Bulgaria all joined Axis despite me having done the focuses for all of them.

Edit; Just in case anyone's curious; Bulgaria quit my faction and joined back to the Axis after I did the Italy First focus.
 

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I feel like changing the thread's title to "Italy is terrible." :)

I think her focus tree is fine for what it is.

Some NFs are situational, though. The oil in Libya focus can be a real problem, since it can be easily taken by the British. In my current MP game, I'm so thankful that the Italians ran the oil NF. It's provided Britain with oil for about 35% of the war's duration. :)

(The Italians got Malta, though. :( )
 

Meglok

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because unless you're doing better than the Axis (Or Allies or Comintern if you're other ideologies) or they're destroyed, the AI most of the time refuses to join your faction and goes for the Axis (Again, or Allies or Comintern).

Well, why would a nation want to join your Italian faction if another one is more powerful, because of the pizza? Think about it. People complain here all the time about the ai doing stupid diplomatic moves, do you really want the ai to join weak alliances when a more powerful option is available?

Some NFs are situational, though. The oil in Libya focus can be a real problem, since it can be easily taken by the British. In my current MP game, I'm so thankful that the Italians ran the oil NF. It's provided Britain with oil for about 35% of the war's duration. :)

(The Italians got Malta, though. :( )

Do I detect a certain amount of smug chortling over that free oil? Malta is a fair trade as long as you held onto the Rock and Alex.
 

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Do I detect a certain amount of smug chortling over that free oil? Malta is a fair trade as long as you held onto the Rock and Alex.

Well, the loss of Malta has been a pain in the arse for most of the war. I have already profusely apologized to the rest of the Allies for my inexcusable failure. And the Italians have made me pay for it by using the air base to bolster their air coverage. (Well, at least until Italy ran out of planes.)

We lost Gibraltar when Franco joined the Axis in 1941 (but I beat back Italian landings earlier). But Egypt, despite bitter fighting and clever Italian landings, held. We did the back and forth thing in Libya. I took Benghazi, then they retook it after awhile with German help, then I stopped them at El-Alamein, then when the US entered the war, we pushed them out of the critical oil area.

At this point in 1942, though, North Africa is more or less secure. The Allies control Tunisia, and we're mopping up the remnants of Vichy and Spain in Morocco.

But taking and controlling that oil has been very useful. I only have a finite number of CIC with which to buy oil and aluminum, so adding even 16-20 units has made a real difference economically. If it did not exist, I'd probably need to rethink my budget.