Italy vs Germany any suggestion?

[iosys2]

well just one word: "chapeau!"
Tech rush in just 2 very focus area then bet in mass assault "la fortuna arride agli audaci" indeed.

HARM seems indeed overpowered till the tech is ahead, but maybe this is the most historical thing in this game often a bit too hard coded and gamy. Superior tech win.

I will give it a try next game.

Thank you

 

[Count Blue]

Building HARM has *nothing* to do with piercing German armor

In short, early HARM are ultra-OP.

Interesting.
Gives way to a whole new approach with minors.
Almost anything seems possible given a bit more time, depending on the goal.

 

[Kovax]

The problem with HARM for a minor is that there are 27 techs to research to unlock it (the initial LARM, ARM, and HARM techs, plus 3 levels for each of the 4 individual component techs in LARM and ARM). That doesn't include doctrines, which you'll want in order to maintain and regain ORG, or further improvements to it, all that's just to unlock it. Basically, you'll tie up 3-5 tech slots for practically the entire game (or actually the entire game, if you lose because your attached infantry isn't competitive), out of roughly 5-6 total.

 

[marxianTJ]

For sure, you would want a nation that had at least 8-10 LS, so that puts a lot of minor powers out of the running. It is also possible to do as Finland with a little luck however (playing completely ahistorically - you have to harvest LS from Sweden and Norway) TAKE THAT SOVIETS lol.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

I'm certainly no expert on Italy but it seems to me that the best thing to do if you want to take on Germany is focus on the Med until Germany is fully engaged with the Soviets, then attack them and see what happens. Of course this would require staying out of the Axis and I have never tried to play as Italy and NOT joined the Axis so I have no idea how that works out. One other thing I'll add is that if you're OK with mods, the Fox and the Lion mod adds a ton of flavor to Italy...it's pretty much a required mod for me anymore if I plan on an Italy game.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I don't think HARM are so OP - marxianTJ only succeeded because he gamed the system so hard, staying on war-footing throughout the game, focusing very hard on specific techs and being allowed to run rampant across the Balkans and Central/Eastern Europe. But a very interesting thing to see played out in case, thanks for testing it.

 

[marxianTJ]

50% less damage to your units no matter what unit you're fighting on *any* terrain is pretty OP lol. If Germany had fielded any HARM they could've pierced me - but they were not so fast. It's far worse if one tech-rushes HARM as France because they can literally take over the entire world due to starting out with 1938 armor techs they can ensure that their HARM are always one tech cycle ahead of the rest of the world and thus will never, ever be pierced by anybody even if they have HARM too lol. By doing what I did you're also taking advantage of another "flaw" in the game in that upgrading units from a cheap iteration to a MUCH more potent iteration is far cheaper in time and IC than building new - especially if your relative practical is high.

The only way for Italy to beat Germany in a straight up fight, with no gamey tactics, would be to have lots of competent help. That was possible to do in Hoi2 because you could snatch allies away from Germany and essentially create your own faction, but that is not possible to do in hoi3. If one wanted to play a not-completely gamey version and still fight Germany joining the Allies or the Comintern is the only way into it. Italy simply doesn't have enough MP or IC to field enough land units to overtake Germany without going way off the historical rails. I'd suggest going with the Comintern because France is basically useless and the AI can't defend, meaningfully, Poland for longer than 5-6 days. At least the USSR has a solid chance of being a decent distraction or outright winning.