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artemis667

artemis667

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Well, after letting myself get distracted for two months, I'm going to put together an event set for the unification of Italy in AGC. I think the trigger date should be after 1513... I think that's a good year because that's when Machiavelli published 'the Prince', of which the final chapter, entitled 'An Exhortation To Liberate Italy From The Barbarians' is essentially a call to national unity. A small bit of background flavour, I guess :)
Countries that should get the event: Savoy, Venice, Genoa, Naples, Tuscany, Siena, Milan, and Modena. I don't believe the Papal States should get this event. I do think that Venice and Savoy should lose their extra culture/s.
The requirements I am thinking of are: countrysize of 6, and ownership of any 3 of the following - Rome, Venice, Genoa, and Naples. I'd make the presumption that an Italian minor that managed to conquer three of these cities in EU2 would be dominant enough to shape the future destiny of Italia.

The event would change to the ITA tag, and give cores over all continental Italy + Sicily. It could also trigger events for Spain, Austria, and France, giving those countries the option to express hostility or positive relations to the new power. I haven't done much testing with this yet, and I've heard mixed things about whether 'ITA' should be used or not. I'm going to try to fit in some extensive testing over the next few days, and see how I go.
 
Sounds good, but what about giving it CB shields on Sardinia and Corsica when it forms, too?
 
Originally posted by Caliga
Sounds good, but what about giving it CB shields on Sardinia and Corsica when it forms, too?
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Corsica, you're probably correct.
Sardinia I'm not sure about. Sardinia wasn't really italianised until the eighteenth century when it was handed over to Savoy (after the war of the Spanish succession that's the cause of so much debate around these boards). It's a bit of a curly island, as far as EU2 is concerned. We could just keep it simple I guess, and give Italy a CB shield on it when it forms :)
 
Venice wouldn't want to form Italy, it was far more interested in the black sea trade and Greece. Genoa also wouldn't form Italy since it was far more interested in being a trade republic. The Republics (Venice and Genoa) and the Papal Communes (Papal States and Bologna) wouldn't be in for Italy.

'Italia' therefore in the pre-Napoleonic era would be basically Milan, Florence, Mantua, Siena, Venice, Genoa and Emilia, as this was the 'Kingdom of Italy'. Sardinia is it's own Kingdom and not under the crown of the KoI, as was Sicily and Naples.

This is the same problem, in pre-Napoleonic times, as in the HRE. The 'Kingdom of Germany' was just one kingdom of many, and didn't include Brandenburg or any of Northern Germany, since this was actually a march under the Imperial jurisdiction. Nor did it include Swabia which was its own kingdom, nor Lotharingia or Burgundy, which were also kingdoms in their own right.

To be crowned king of all 'Germany' you need to be crowned king of Germany, duke of Saxony and Swabia, and King of Franconia.
 
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The capital of the Kingdom of Italy was in Milan by the way, Pavia.
Savoy was actually a part of the Kingdom of Burgundy.
 
Originally posted by Mad King James
Venice wouldn't want to form Italy, it was far more interested in the black sea trade and Greece. Genoa also wouldn't form Italy since it was far more interested in being a trade republic. The Republics (Venice and Genoa) and the Papal Communes (Papal States and Bologna) wouldn't be in for Italy.

'Italia' therefore in the pre-Napoleonic era would be basically Milan, Florence, Mantua, Siena, Venice, Genoa and Emilia, as this was the 'Kingdom of Italy'. Sardinia is it's own Kingdom and not under the crown of the KoI, as was Sicily and Naples.

This is the same problem, in pre-Napoleonic times, as in the HRE. The 'Kingdom of Germany' was just one kingdom of many, and didn't include Brandenburg or any of Northern Germany, since this was actually a march under the Imperial jurisdiction. Nor did it include Swabia which was its own kingdom, nor Lotharingia or Burgundy, which were also kingdoms in their own right.

To be crowned king of all 'Germany' you need to be crowned king of Germany, duke of Saxony and Swabia, and King of Franconia.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right about Venice and Genoa, as well as the Papacy of course. So Italian unification would be more of interest to Mantua, Siena, Tuscany, Modena and Milan, if we wanted to narrow the kingdoms down. As for Naples and Sicily, we could presume that they would be dominated by Spain at this point in time. Maybe approach it this way... if one of the five possible kingdoms were to own Milan, plus either Venice or Genoa, and have a minimum province size of 6, they'd be strong enough to claim the throne of Italy. For further expansion from there, they could wrestle with Spain for control of Naples/Sicily, or the Papacy for Rome.
I never knew Savoy was part of the Kingdom of Burgundy. Should Savoy be Burgundy's vassal at the beginning of the game? Or is it a nominal relationship only?
On that note, the thing about European history is that the more I'm learning about it, the more I'm realising that I don't know much at all.
 
Yeah you got it, though the actual medieval kingdom of 'Italy' is only NORTHERN italy. To have claim to all of modern italy you need to:
a: Be crowned King of Italy
b: Be crowned King of Naples
c: Be crowned King of Sicily
d: Be crowned King of Sardinia

And even then, there's no legal way (in the medieval sense) to have claim to Papal land. You can take Rome sure, but everyone and his momma will refuse to recognize your temporal authority as being greater than that of the Pope.

To have claim to Sicily, Naples and Sardinia is easy enough, you need to marry into a branch of the House of Anjou, and then excercise your claim to the old Norman kingdoms. This will naturally piss off Spain and France tremendously and even declaring this will mean immediate war with both of them. Anjou also gives you claimancy to parts of northeastern France, Provence, Languedoc, Rousillon, and Savoy, though likely as Italy you only want to exercise your claims on Sardinia, Sicily and Savoy. In fact, if you play along with France and only recognize the Anjou claim to SPANISH areas (and Savoy of course) you could even get their support, and keep Spain from attacking you for making your claim.

Ahh the snake pit of medieval claimancy...

Claiming the Kingdom of Italy is easy-pie though, just own Milan, Tuscany, Mantua, Modena and Siena, and bribe the Pope up to above 190, and he should recognize your 'right' to the throne ;) HOWEVER so you don't look totally illegitimate, you need to have a badboy of under 5. (0-4)

The same should be true of Lotharingia (not counting the Italian part) and Germany. The big issue though is getting the pope to recognize you as an INDEPENDENT KoI, since the crown of Italy belongs to the Emperor. Any claim to Italy will mean winning a war against Austria, the current holder of the Italian crown. You will have to vassilize Austria in order to become Italy, in exchange for letting them go free. This would let the Kingdom of Italy have special status inside the HRE like the kind Bohemia has.
 
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Well yeah, you didn't expect to just invade and have everyone say "Oh thanks, yeah here's this crown..." :p

Badboy diminishes over time, and if you aren't a total warmonger you don't get that much in the first place :p
 
So much historical things!!!!! I really want to have italy. But to do that I need to vassalise AUSTRIA!?? and have a BB of 5!??? that are almost impossible to do in only one game. Oh and do all of this in 1530!!! that is what I call "mission Impossibel"
 
Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
So much historical things!!!!! I really want to have italy. But to do that I need to vassalise AUSTRIA!?? and have a BB of 5!??? that are almost impossible to do in only one game. Oh and do all of this in 1530!!! that is what I call "mission Impossibel"
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And you wonder why Italy didn't form until the mid 1800s? ;)
 
It should (imo) be possible to become a "lesser Italy" without Siciliy, Papal States, and Sardinia. To do so you should only need to control everything on the peninsula above the Papal states, and have a low BB. Maybe you could get CBs on the other provinces too? This lesser Italy would be less impossible. :)
 
That's what I'm talking about man ;)
I suppose Austria is a bit much, you should be able to buy the title off them too, since it's a bit of an empty title without the land.

Neither of the republics were part of the Kingdom of Italy either, so you don't need Genoa or Venice.
 
How about if you convert to Protestantism? The princes of Northern Germany treated church estates as fair game in their wars of conquest. If Italy were to go Protestant, they should be able to claim Rome. All this BB stuff and Papal relations would be irrelevant if you were a Protestant.

The city of Venice wasn't party of Italy, but 90 percent of the province, bar the city and a little coast line, was part of the Kingdom of Italy. Verona and Padua (the two other major cities assumed to be in the Veneto province) were part of HRE Italy for a very long time. If one were to claim Kingdom of Italy, they would have a fair claim on Veneto.

Also the city of Turin (called Torino in EU2... part of the Piemonte province) was part of the medieval Kingdom of Italy.




And you wonder why Italy didn't form until the mid 1800s?
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... no more unrealistic than reviving the Byzantine Empire, and eventually giving cores on Egypt and conversions for Judea and Samaria :p.

In the very early 1400s and late 1300s Gian Galeazzo Visconti united a large part of Italy and came damn close to claiming the Kingdom of Italy. He died shortly before his planned invasion of Florence.

Milan in 1403
milan.jpg
 
He had a long way to go, in EU2 terms he only had 2 provinces, maybe 3 if you count Parma.
Edit: Oh wait, 4 provinces. Ok he was close :p
 
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Yes, what is this Centennia program, and can we all have copies? :)
 
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