Italy the um? something of hoi

[jacob-Lundgren]

i just wonder what peoples opinion of italy is. i figure it might turn out kinda like russia was for eu2. decent potential but cant do to well in the ai's hands while a human might be strong.
i dont think they can take on france and england by themselves or anything of that sort but if you played them right you might actualy be able to grab some land (ethiopia albania) and possibly fight the greeces and yugoslavs without germany in order to take a small amount of land but force a harse peace on them and make your position nicer. and maybe even declare war only on the soviets and hope you can get something out of that while avoiding fighting england and the us.

 

[unmerged(7996)]

I agree. Italy probably has decent potential if they play their cards right.

The country which IMO would be fun to play though is Spain...and join the Axis to nip away at France's southern flank.

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

i am not sure about playing as a country that wasnt in the war and joining the axis. we all know who won. however turning spain to communism might offer long term payoffs.

 

[unmerged(7996)]

Hmmm...but if things were to shake out a little differently with how the Germans handle Russia(or even North Africa with Spanish help)??????...this thing could turn so many different ways. One of the reasons it is so appealing to me.

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

ya i am thinking a BIG draw to hoi will be the 1936 starting date. that allows for such changes and so much fun. playing as the czechs and trying to make an alliance with a few neighbors or such.

oh ya your getting me off topic back to italy people.

 

[unmerged(7996)]

I hadn't considered that one...looks like there will be lots of options to keep this fresh...as in EUII.

Sorry to drive this OT from Italy.


Sooo...back on topic.

Do you know if it will be possible for the Italians to improve their armor more rapidly than they did historically? That was one of the reasons they got thumped in Africa. I remember reading an account from one German tank officer where he talked about how brave the Italians were. Their armor was providing cover for the German recon tanks to pull out...and....the Italian tank projectiles were incapable of piercing the British armor while the British were easily able to destroy the Italian tanks. He remarked that their officers faced this situation bravely...knowing that they had no hope of victory.

 

[unmerged(7078)]

if i played as italy i wolud overthrow mussolini right at the start join France and Britain and beat some german ass! (a very likely story)

 

[unmerged(8622)]

Actually, i like playing the underdog in any game, and trying to win against all odds.
So Italy is a good choice, of course. I dont know much about Italian industrial capacity, but I read somewhere that if they got their 'act together', they would have been quite a formidable producer.
As for their technology, I would hope that the player is aware of their drawbacks, and what could be done about them. For me, I'd concentrate on making their factories churn out sizeable numbers, and focus on developing better or greater than infantry of the brits early on, then, i'd switch to air power, making their bombers and fighters have long range and deadly payloads/accuracy. A neat factor that kinda ties in with this would be a way to see anyone's superficial values for their equipment, so you'd know if you have better infantry than say, Greece, and it would be better to weigh out your odds by comparing stats and troop capability.
Italy is probably going to be the second country I try

 

[unmerged(255)]

This thread reminds me of the time when I insisted on playing as Italy for a hot-seat Clash of Steel game...I did the best I could but that was a different game with a different set of rules. Hopefully this time some shadow of the Roman Empire will rise again---with a little German sugar daddy backing of course

Seriously though, I think Italy will suffer (especially in multiplayer) immensely due to 'hindsight.' Knowing how history progressed, I don't think any German player would let his Italian ally (if they are allies that is) to attack Greece. Maybe we'll often see closer cooperation between Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in the western front...as for North Africa, well the Germans might as well put more resources to 'help' Italians get rid of the Brits there---perhaps leading to a massive Middle Eastern front to encroach on USSR's back door.

 

[unmerged(4953)]

Keep Austria..Italian!

 

[unmerged(4396)]

Malta! Malta! Malta! Forget airdropping on... where? Bloody Crete? There's where Italy would be most handy, control of the Med... lots of airpower. Sure, ain't as glorious, but protecting the path to Egypt would be important!

 

[unmerged(255)]

Originally posted by crusin
Malta! Malta! Malta! Forget airdropping on... where? Bloody Crete? There's where Italy would be most handy, control of the Med... lots of airpower. Sure, ain't as glorious, but protecting the path to Egypt would be important!

Malta of all places? God here I was imagining a resurgent Roman Empire sprawling all over the Med from Syria to Morocco

Yes it's an extremely strategic place that'd cost -dearly- to capture, but the loss of so many lives and resources for a tiny island might be a little hard to swallow for us would-be Mussolinis.

Now that you mention however, maybe there should be some special benefits of controlling Malta? (just as Gibraltar and the Suez Canal will no doubt have)

 

[unmerged(10352)]

Originally posted by tuna

Now that you mention however, maybe there should be some special benefits of controlling Malta? (just as Gibraltar and the Suez Canal will no doubt have)

I would be happy to expend alot of resources (young Italian men) in taking it if only for its inheirent strategic value.

As an airbase it dominates N. Africa and the Med. But denying that airbase/naval base to the brits I think is its big value.

 

[unmerged(1972)]

If Germany can get Spain, Italy, and Turkey to take an active part, the Mediterranean would be truly under their control. With only Italy? Maybe. Of course, Spain would turn into a very tempting place to land Allied troops instead of Africa and France.

 

[unmerged(9422)]

I think that Italy will be capable of changing history in HoI. They definitely have the potential to do so. The Italian economy wasn't the greatest, but it should be sufficient enough to get somewhere. I would like to see the Italians win in Egypt. I think with diplomacy in HoI, it will make a major difference in the outcome of the war. The Neutrals will probably have a better chance to accept to join with the side that they see winning. If the Axis can gain some important allies throughout Europe (Spain and Turkey would be two very good ones for fighting in Africa) they could be more successful. With some Spanish and Turkish help in North Africa, the Italians could be quite successful. I will like to see how the computer handles Italy, but I think they will be able to do very well under human control. Italy will probably also play a very important role in the game, as, if it is captured, the Germans will be threatened from the south. While, if it remains OK, then the Axis will be in a good position.


Meiji-Tenno

 

[Pkunzipper]

The main problem of Italy was technology...
In 1940 all italian weapons, armors and aircraft (the fleet was good) weren't a lot more advanced than the WWI ones...
Italian player should put a lot of money and resources in research in order not to rely in any allied country.

I think Spain is a very powerfull axis ally, since Gibriltar is easy to capture from it... Think what can happen if British can't send supplies to Egypt and Malta trough the Gibriltar Strait......

 

[unmerged(255)]

Several people mentioned varients of a Spanish-Italian-Turkish alliance in the Med against the Brits, sounds great to me...with some serious German backing they should be able to capture the Suez Canal---but would Turkey survive a Soviet offensive on her eastern provinces? (assuming USSR does join forces with the Allies)

 

[King]

In my opinion I think Italy had 2 problems in the real war.

1) Lack of Focus, Italy sent an army to Russia, Troops to Greece and Yugoslavia, troops to Lybia, etc. etc.. I think that Italy needs to make a decision early in the game what they are going for. If it is the Balkins, then go there, but then you don't get yourslef tied up in the North Africa, till your ready.

2) Too big an armed forces/not enough equipment. These are two sides of the same coin. In EUII talk I would focus on quality rather than quantity. The British have some many advatages as it is (bigger fleet, main theatre of operations, more resources) that your work is going to be cut out as it is. Sooner or later you are going to have to take them on (ok I don't know that, it depends what a win is for the Italians) it is time to plan.

 

[unmerged(9422)]

Originally posted by tuna
Several people mentioned varients of a Spanish-Italian-Turkish alliance in the Med against the Brits, sounds great to me...with some serious German backing they should be able to capture the Suez Canal---but would Turkey survive a Soviet offensive on her eastern provinces? (assuming USSR does join forces with the Allies)

Yes, I agree. This could be a great alliance! About the Soviet offensive.. While the Turks, Italians, Spanish, and some Germans take North Africa, the Germans throw everything at Russia and make sure that they win.
Then, the Axis will win, or be very hard to beat. If all of this was done, I bet some neutrals would try to join Axis too, increasing their power. Maybe the Middle East could be focused on too. Operation Sea Lion, anyone?


Meiji-Tenno

 

[unmerged(9362)]

One of the problems of Italy there was also the lack of resources: the Allies had a lot of everything (besides rubber), Germany had a lot of coal, iron and controlled the resources of occupied Europe. Italy had nothing: in Italy there aren't mines (there is coal only in Sardinia, but not enogh, and by 1943 the convoys to that island were under the threat of Allied airplanes and subs), oil fields or rubber. Another problem was food: Italy hadn't enough food for everyone. In 1945 the official daily ration was of about 900 calories: for comparison a PoW, according to Geneva convention, must have at least 1300 calories per day. So thousands of farmers didn't became soldiers, because their work was more important. Italy in WW1 (23 may 1915 / 4 nov 1918), thanks to food imported from America (expecially Argentina, Brazil and USA), mobilized 5,500,000 men, in WW2 (10 june 1940 / 8 sept. 1943) only 3,430,000. A lot of men were not mobilized also because of the lack of equipment.
Playing Italy, I'll enter WW2 after French defeat, then, I'll use my army only in North Africa, I'll forget Greece, even if I'll be forced to lost Italian Dodecanese (Greece was attacked also to have a safe connection with that colony, used as base for some looooong range bombings on Baharein and for recon planes that detected British convoys). I'll make a surprise attack on Alexandria and Gibraltar, and I'll attack Malta the first day of war, even if I'll lose half of my soldiers, I'll conquer it! Then I'll try to conquest Egypt, and I'll make diversive attacks in Sudan from Italian East Africa. Once I've seized Suez (but here I'm dreaming: with Italian army and generals I'll never reach even Alexandria, but a bit of German help will be welcome ), I'll be glad to see Iraq and Iran become my allied (and probably even Turkey). A this point, if I'll still have East Africa, I'll conquer Sudan; if not, I'll go to Caucasus. But probably French North Africa will be occupied by USA and UK, so I'll stop near Suez, and send most of my army in Tunisia, hoping in God (and Germans)! If in HoI I'll be able to make a pact with Germany so they'll send me more resources, my army will have better and more equipment, and probably I'll need only some German generals, if, as in true history, I'll not have resources, well, Germany will be forced to send a lot of men and weapons in N.A.! (or I'll be defeated )