Italy, the Renaissance, and Technology Groups

[Arachne]

All of Europe was not equal in technology during the era of EU4, and that's handled by a Western/Eastern technology group split. However, I think that split leads to some unfortunate and ahistorical divisions the way they are currently done, such as Hungary, which was right behind Italy in adopting Renaissance ideals, having a penalty compared to, say, Iceland and Ireland. This is obviously not right, and I have an idea for fixing it.

Demote the Western technology group. Give it a tech penalty, just like everyone else. Add a new technology group, call it Renaissance or Enlightenment, or even call it Renaissance and then switch the name to Enlightenment when a country reaches a certain level of development, or call it something entirely different if those names aren't good enough. Allow Western technology group countries to "Westernize" into the Renaissance technology group easily, in the same way the Ottoman and Eastern tech groups are now allowed to Westernize easily. This way the Renaissance becomes an actual game mechanic, and something that can happen to a country, instead of allowing Norway to emigrate to Australia before the Renaissance can ever reach there, and keep up with Europe easily.

This is my suggestion re: technology groups. I realize it might be impractical, but I think it might add some historicity and flavor to the game.

 

[Celtic Emporer]

Another additive would be to only allow countries that control specific provincs(specifically ones that used to be in the Roman Empire) can do this, since the Renaissance was the rebirth of Roman technologies.... And also make it where Byzantium starts with this much tech power, since...you know....they were the remnants of the Empire.....

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I don't think making a new tech group is the answer, I think a widespread static modifier would make more sense. While the big tech rrediscoveries did happen in Italy, other countires were developing significantly in other ways. I also think its a design choice, while Italy fronted the redescoveries and new persuits of science, North west europe were the major drivers of innovation during the 2nd half of the timeframe. I think it balances out fairly nicely.

 

[joe9594]

remember that the renaissance started in like the 1200s. by 1444 it has in some ways already spread its most important elements to the majority of european countries. Adding a new tech group in europe that only a few particularly isolated countries will be in seems excessive. Plus the only element of the renaissance that was really signficantly different from what was happening before was the cultural element, if I recall correctly it didnt actually increase innovation to nearly the same degree that the enlightenment did, the main reason it is consdiered so important is that a lot of renaissance figures wrote about how impotant it was.

 

[talilu]

Maybe we could have Centers of Rennaisance spawn in provinces and spread it's ideas in Western/Eastern/Christian(?) nations just like Centres of Reformation. They would be coded to spawn in Italy first and later elsewhere in Europe.

Nations that has more than %50 of their provinces embracing the Rennaisance could reform their government according to it and have tech-idea cost reduction. Centers of Rennaisance would increase the unrest in provinces until the government accepts the Rennaisance. I really can't think of a bonus to make not embracing feasible so I need help here.

 

[Denkt]

Maybe a boost to goverment technology development but not to military or diplomacy as rennaisance did not really help these development in any significant way, in fact the countries that was late with rennaisance such as Sweden or England became world leaders in military and diplomatic tech while Italy did stagante in military development because the mercenaries.

 

[Arachne]

Maybe we could have Centers of Rennaisance spawn in provinces and spread it's ideas in Western/Eastern/Christian(?) nations just like Centres of Reformation. They would be coded to spawn in Italy first and later elsewhere in Europe.

Nations that has more than %50 of their provinces embracing the Rennaisance could reform their government according to it and have tech-idea cost reduction. Centers of Rennaisance would increase the unrest in provinces until the government accepts the Rennaisance. I really can't think of a bonus to make not embracing feasible so I need help here.

Yes, I had a similar idea, too. As it is, the Renaissance and Enlightenment really aren't implemented in the game, and that's a shame, plus the Western/Eastern technology group split gives a really strange trajectory for some countries on its own. Norway, for instance, really shouldn't be in the Western technology group, since it was a primitive backwater until the 1960s. A more organic Renaissance/Enlightenment, and a more dynamic system for technology bonuses/penalties in Europe would make the game more interesting, I think.

 

[talilu]

So how many countries do we have on Western Tech that should be in Eastern one?

Ireland
Norway
Finland
Sapmi

I don't know about the technological development of Europe, so any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Denkt]

I would keep them in western, even if just for balance reasons.

If you add in renaissance should not southern europe technology development stagnate in mid-late game like it did historically? Be moved back to western then north and central europe get enlightenment tech group? In EUII, Spain started with tech at high 30s in 1800s while UK started with tech level 52 or something like that.

 

[Zehir]

I don't think this idea would be good. I would put some Innovative/Conservative slider instead. So being innovative gives you tech bonuses, but reduces your legitimacy, gives you unrest or something. Being conservative would give the opposite. So the technology group costs would for example range from 100%-120% for western, 110%-130% for eastern, and so on. Numbers could be different, but you get the idea.

 

[Ilightmaster]

You've already got events that grant bonus in western nations, so you already obtain bonus in old roman countries. But i would like to see events associated with technologic groups.

 

[WeissRaben]

So how many countries do we have on Western Tech that should be in Eastern one?

Ireland
Norway
Finland
Sapmi

I don't know about the technological development of Europe, so any suggestions are appreciated.

That's more because, while Paradox can pretend the move from cash-based research to MP-based research was a good move, extreme poverty did stifle technological innovation. I'd suggest average development putting a modifier on tech costs, but balancing such an important part of the game on a half-paywalled feature would not be good.