ITALY RPG/AAR

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Gandalf slides over next to Senator Storey in the Senator's private cafeteria, where he is quietly munching on some biscotti and a small bowl of fettucine alfredo. He speaks in low tones to the venerable senator.

Please forgive me for eavesdropping but I couldn't help but overhear your conversation with Don Forster. No, don't get up. I want to assure you that I am of similar mind with you on these matters. I have long felt that it is our rightful heritage as Italians to reclaim the splendor of Ancient Rome for the glory of God. The Middle Earth Sea belongs to us by birthright, and we must take steps to secure it from the Turks and the Spaniards. It still galls me to see Malta to our south under the rule of those tapas-eating, sorry excuses for Catholics, and I swear that I can get no restful sleep until I know that the Holy Lands of Palestine, Greece, and North Africa are once again in the hands of God-fearing Christians.

I fear however that you and Senator Forster will overplay your hand. If I may be permitted to join your counsels, I suggest that we spend some time nurturing our strength and reputation among the rest of Europe. While I have no love for the Hapsburgs or those Protestant dogs, I fear a stab from behind if we commit ourselves to eradicating the Muslim stench. We must first ensure that Europe stands solidly behind us before we engage in any more wars of conquest.

Furthermore, we must ensure the solidity of our economic base before committing to any more major wars. Once we have a firm grasp on South Vespucci we will be in a much better position to fund further Mediterranean adventures. Futhermore, a wise suggestion has been offered about establishing a central European bank. If carried out properly this could actually help achieve both this goal of economic prosperity and the previous one of binding Europe more closely to ourselves.

My friend, I do not counsel these things out of fear but out of prudence. I desire the same things as you but we must act wisely and cautiously. Let us take the long view of history. The mediterranean will always be there, the Holy Lands will remain where they are, and the Turks will continue to exist until such time as we are ready to chastise their blasphemy. We have no need to hurry. Let us slowly gather a coalition of like minded senators to ourselves, and when, at last Italy is at the peak of her strength, then no one will be able to stop our momentum and the Mediterranean will be ours for the taking. This then is my grand dream for the future of Italy. Together we can make it a reality.

What say you good fellow?

 

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Originally posted by Misha
These provinces are guaranteed to Spain under the Treay of Tordesillas, & the Spanish can reclaim them without declaring war upon us simply by marching troops into them.

With your leave mighty Doge:

Damn these Spanish curs!!! How typically Iberian of them to interfere with our perfectly legitimate (albeit greedy) crusade to convert the heathens of South Vespucci!!! Would that I could drown Madrid in a sea of toxic zabaglione . . .

(Calming down a bit as he munches on some biscotti.) Hmmn . . . You know, I don't think that The Treaty of Tordesillas is the problem here. Rather the Inca lands are probably just run-of-the-mill unfortified provinces of a nation that just happens to be at war with both Spain and ourselves. Lima, therefore, won't simply be converted into a Spanish colony by the mere presence of this Aquirro fellow. Rather, it will remain an Incan territory that is merely captured by the Spaniard dog until: (a) we occupy the province with a better commander; or (b) the Castilian whelp leaves the territory and it is re-occupied by our forces. Then it will become Incan territory captured by us . In either event, the captured territory will not become the permanent property of either Spain or Italy until: (a) a peace treaty is signed: or (b) the Inca nation is annexed. Indeed, my guess is that Grassi and this noxious guitar-player Aquirro will be unable to attack one another on Incan soil unless war is declared between ourselves and Spain.

To my mind the way to put this situation to our advantage is to let this flamenco-dancing twerp, Aquirro, cut a swath of destruction through the Incas. Then have a very small regiment of our troops closely shadow his every move. Thus, as he leaves each province devoid of Inca warriors, our forces will immediately capture the empty and unfortified province for the glory of the Italian republic. We should employ this same strategy of letting the Spaniard do the dirty work against these Inca armies and following close behind them in the southern provinces of Coquimbo and Atacama, as well. If we immediately take out a series of loans, we should be able to raise and transport a sufficient number of troops to South Vespucci to ensure that our shadowing regiments greatly outnumber the Spanish fighting regiments. We should also be able to leave larger garrisons in the critical gold provinces than the Spaniards do. By converting the majority of the Spanish-captured territories into Italian-captured territories we will probably deny these Spanish farts the stars necessary for them to secure a beneficial peace treaty with the Incas. Better still, once all of the Inca territories have been captured by either ourselves or Spain and the time comes to push the annex button, we should walk away with the vast majority of the Inca lands. (We should be reluctant, however, to push that annex button unless we hold three or four of the Incas' gold bearing provinces. Having an extra Conquistador out there to sit on a gold province should help as well.)

In addition to this shadowing strategy, we should also try to send a goodly sized regiment of our troops to garrison Azuay from unexpected Spanish incursions from the North. Grassi might also just want to immediately conquer the province to the West of him, as my spies inform me that this land hosts gold too.

Hmmn . . . you know, this incursion by the Spanish dogs might just work out in our favor. Heck, we wouldn't even need to declare war against them and take the stability hit.

Senators, let us take advantage of this situation! Let us profit from these smelly Iberians' stupidity. Let us immediately raise war finances though a series of loans and swamp the Incas' lands with our feared Italian desserts . . . opps, I meant troops.

Our rightful gold awaits us!

Cuzco delenda est!

(Oh, and noble Doge. I am greatly pleased that you emerged from this unfortunate exploding tiramisu episode (relatively) unscathed. I was shocked, just shocked, when I found out that a Spanish agent had infiltrated our fine Styrian kitchens and made an attempt upon your life. Rest assured, noble Doge, that our legions in Styria had this vile and loathsome (not to mention incompetent, grr . . .) Spanish pastry chef immediately arrested. A full confession was obtained from this dastardly assassin under the skillful hands of our beloved Cardinal Lupo ("this won't hurt a bit") Callebresi - following which the would-be-murderer, his friends, his family, their acquaintances and pets were all horribly executed by impalement. I'm sure that your Highness' burns will fully heal and the hearing in your right ear will return with the passage of time . . . Long live the Doge!)

 

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Originally posted by warspite

POPE IN ROME (fournier) SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU

WHAT WILL YOU SAY TO DOGE ABOUT THE NEWEST ATTACKS AGAINST CATHOLACISM BY PROTESTANT GERMANS?

WILL YOU SUPPORT DECISION TO GO TO WAR AGAINST SPAIN?

DO YOU WANT THE CAPITAL TO MOVE TO ROME? (if yes cost lowers to 300ducats for the move) (if no then price for move stays at 500d)

please answer the questions and ill post updates after that. Thanks again for your time and participation gentlemen. You make this aar fun.

On this fair day, Doge Misha is giving a banquet in the honor of the Pope's Legate, Cardinal Montreux. During this entertainment, the guests (and all the others who of course have spies there) learn that Peter II has excommunicated the treacherous heretical german princes whom he compared to the greedy b... uh! king of England. On the other hand he appears firmly opposed to going to war against Spain at this time when he urges all and every catholic ruler to stand side by side to fight the heretics.
The Pope, after long discussions with his advisors , cannot but praise the wisdom of the Senators feeling the time has come to make the republic truly italian, and he supports wholeheartedly the move of the capital to Rome.

Out of roleplay :
1) I'm almost 36, single and I got the game in March (bought it from England as the french translation are generally not worth it). I'm more of a role-player but like the strategy computer games. EU is the best I've yet seen.

2) In the game, I'm afraid as long as the Edict in Tolerance has not come all our unfortified colonies and trade posts are fair game to the spanish (or the portuguese (in Brazil, Africa and Asia minus Philippinas). They can come in there and take them without DoWing us. On the other hand if we should happen to have an overwhelming army of ours encounter this spanish conquistador with his 1000 men, they will fight it over there and we may be able to wipe them all out : that's what I recommend. I strongly suggest we also send our other conquistador there; having him will help fight the incas (and we should leave armies in the conquered provinces able to stop them coming in our back), increase the probability of success in establishing colonies and trade posts as well as decreasing their cost. We must finish the Incas or make peace for what we can and then we must build fortresses in those provinces so the spanish cannot take them just by walking in there; we cannot afford to have large armies able to repel them all along the provinces bordering the sea or non-incan provinces.

3) I'm afraid I've not much more time here today as I got students with me in the lab for practicals and I also want to check on Ariel's thread.

 

[Warspite]

Note for the Pope (fournier)

You have the power to cancel the treaty of tordesillas because now the Papacy rests in Italian hands (per say) But if you cancel the treaty it will drop Italies relations with spain and portugal 100 points but the good news is they hate us -200 anyways. But only you can cancel the treaty (which i then edit the game) thats the good part about conquering the Papacy in this aar, now you have control over it. So here is your chance to wield your powers and effect the entire course of the game. Let me and misha know though so we can take appropriate steps. Misha you will need to decide if you want war with spain or not IF treaty is cancelled by the Pope.

By the way I just found out that the Palitinat is ally to spain and austria. palitinat being one of the countries that insulted Italy and the Pope and turned reformist. the plot thickens

 

[Forster]

The next day, Sen Forster meets with Sen Storey in a small trattoria, having a glass of chianti and some spagghetti for lunch.

Sir,I am afraid you misunderstood me. I was discussing long-term goals, not immediate actions. We are not strong enough, nor do we have the financial stability to tackle the infidel today. But, the time will come. First we must clean up this mess in Nova Italia. Grassi needs more than we are sending, I feel.

How are your relations with Sen Fournier? Can you convince him to talk to his nephew, the Pope? We really need the Pope's support, but he has to ease up on constant calls for defeat of the our northern neighbors. It is making Doge Misha's diplomatic ventures very difficult. I have no qualms if the good Pope was to start condemning the Spanish dogs, but that may make it look as if the Papacy was under our thumb.

I believe Sen Carlotti will support us, but we may have to work on Sen Meerschaum and Gandalf. I think Doge Misha is doing a good job, but I am disappointed in her failure to get a decent force to Grassi.

Well, we must hurry. I am afraid we will miss the next meeting. Alas, it would be nice to be in Firenza.

 

[Forster]

Sen Forster arises from his seat:

Doge Misha, Honorable Senators,

I wish to discuss our future, the future of our great country. You all know my feelings on how we need to make the Mediterranean our sea, that we need to control it and dominate the entire length and breath, such that no nation would consider attacking by ship. To do this will require a large navy, one that has strong fleets that can operate independently, possible at opposite ends of our sea at the same time. And, we still need a navy that can support our overseas expeditions. We must begin constructing these fleets now, adding a few ships each year, so that when the time comes, we WILL be ready.

You all know my feelings on our venture in Nova Italia. It has been difficult to hear about Gen Grassi's losses, especially when I can not but believe part of the fault lies with us. We have failed to give him the tools he needs. Now we hear that the Spanish have started to claim those lands that are rightfully ours. This could not have happened if we had given Grassi the army he needs to conquer the Inca. It is critical that we claim these areas, possible landing traders and colonists behind the Spanish, if they are so foolish as to leave an area free from their stinking grip. Grassi must have the force to block attempts by the Spanish harlot to steal our lands under that ridiculous Treaty they wrenched from an earlier, misguided Pope. Pope Petrus should declare that vile, loathesome treaty null and void. After all, it is known by all that it was made under the Spanish threat.

As with our navy, we must NOW start to build up our army. We need to be able to field large armies in several locations, at opposite ends of our lake, as well as in support of our overseas ventures. We can not afford to do this all at once, but we can take the first steps, building a few new armies each year, then adding to them each year. Italia must become a state no nation will want to trifle with.

I fully support Doge Misha's attempts to woo allies from our northern neighbors. We need to have strong friends, and we need to work closely with them. In truth, because of our unique position, many of our allies will face greater hardships than we if a war should break out. Let us try to win their support, treat them as equals. Let us try first gain them as allies, but let us look forward to the day when they may become part of a Italia Grande.

And, last, let us consider our financial affairs. I have heard grumbling over the cost to move our capitol. My sources have hinted, and perhaps Doge Misha will confirm, that Pope Petrus has thrown his support behind the idea, and will assist us to do so. This will lower our cost by about half, possibly. The time is never better. BUT, we must find a way to obtain additional revenues. I again suggest we start a European bank, to lend funds to other nations in need, for an appropriate return on our capitol.

Thank you.

The Sen returns to his seat.

 

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but....

...what about Sardinia,Corse or Sicily
maybe conquer Marseille,Athene or the Hafsids

 

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Originally posted by warspite
Note for the Pope (fournier)

You have the power to cancel the treaty of tordesillas because now the Papacy rests in Italian hands (per say) But if you cancel the treaty it will drop Italies relations with spain and portugal 100 points but the good news is they hate us -200 anyways. But only you can cancel the treaty (which i then edit the game) thats the good part about conquering the Papacy in this aar, now you have control over it. So here is your chance to wield your powers and effect the entire course of the game. Let me and misha know though so we can take appropriate steps. Misha you will need to decide if you want war with spain or not IF treaty is cancelled by the Pope.

Question : does anybody there remember which Pope decreed that the Pope(s) could never be wrong? I think it was a Gregorius (number XIII??) during the 14th century but I'm not sure. If that's the case I am afraid this Pope cannot rescind this treaty. It's too bad it's not possible to have an addendum to the treaty including the rights of a third country (Spain/Portugal must be hardcoded) because that's more or less what happened to enable the Portuguese to keep their brazilian possessions and the Spanish the Philippines; the original treaty of Tordesillas did not allow that.

Originally posted by warspite
Note for the Pope (fournier)
By the way I just found out that the Palitinat is ally to spain and austria. palitinat being one of the countries that insulted Italy and the Pope and turned reformist. the plot thickens

The Vatican, the appartments of His Holiness Peter II
Peter II : What do you say, Montreux ? These b...
Cardinal Montreux : Your Holiness...
Peter II : Don't interrupt me .YES, WE SHALL SAY IT : THESE MISBEGOTTEN SONS OF A GOAT, THESE FIENDS, THEY DARE TO ALLY THEMSELVES WITH THE APOSTATE COUNT PALATINE ! WHEN WE OFFERED THEM OUR HAND IN FRIENDSHIP !
Cardinal Montreux : Your Holiness, calm yourself. Take one of these delicious biscotti, they come straight from the hands of Senator Meerschaum. I am sure as soon as the King of Spain and the Emperor hear the insults proferred by the heretic princes they will throw them away from their alliance. Not even them can be such fools surely as to extend their friendship to such monsters!
Peter II : Montreux, Montreux, you were always the voice of reason, but you do not see the truth here. We were right to excommunicate them a few years ago. We thought bringing them back into Our bosom would open their eyes but they are just greedy men, they do not understand that they endanger not only their souls -which would be bad enough- but also that of all their subjects. We grieve, Montreux, We grieve so much to see the great men that God himself anointed to guide their nations betray him everyday. And for what ? The dross of this earth, a bit of power, a bit of gold, pleasures forbidden. We fear in the end we will stand alone, abandonned by all...
Tears are brimming in the Pope's eyes and the Legate feels chilled by his leader's words.
Peter II : Montreux, We will give them a last chance. We must hurry our Council, We must bring all our brothers to see the truth and be ready to face the Demon. Call Our secretary, We have a letter to dictate, and summon this spanish monk, de Loyola, We have a task for him. Summon also Father XXXX (here I would like one of you to take charge of this character, so please read the end of my post, suggest your candidates and send their resume so I can choose the one worthy of this task). De Loyola wishes Us to form a new Order to battle the heretics, We have decided We shll grant his wish and appoint him as their spiritual head. But we need more than that, we need men who are not afraid to confront the Beast in its own lair and if necessary die to help us drive it back to the Pit. To do that these brothers will have to be soldiers, like the Hospitallers and Templars of old, before they became corrupted and weak, and lost the Holy Land to the heathen. Father XXXX will be their General, and he will answer directly to Us. Run, Montreux, run, we cannot loose an hour, we cannot loose a minute, the Lord commands and he is angry; today His face is the one who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha!
Montreux departs the Pope's suite in a great hurry. Behind him, he can hear his master muttering.
Peter II : And if they do not obey Us, we will see about this treaty of Tordesillas Our predecessor wrote. The name of Spain shall be expugned...yes...yes, that's it, we shall issue the treaty of Rome, and the world shall become partitioned between Italy and France...mmm...if they are not too greedy we may even leave their bits to the Portuguese...




Warspite : here I was thinking that if you can dissolve the treaty of Tordesillas, maybe you could hurry up the Council of Trent if it does not happen soon. What's more, I am thinking the Pope does have another instrument in his hand : he can place on both Spain and Austria his Interdict (hope it's the right english word), which will have the following effects : no religious rights like baptism, marriage, mass, etc can be performed in interdicted lands. It did really happen at some points historically and caused great unrest in the concerned countries (unbaptized newborns who died would be condemned to Hell for example!). If you cannot increase the unrest (revolt risks) in Catholic provinces of interdicted nations or you feel it would be too much like cheating (I would feel like that), I would then suggest you diminish the diplomatic standings of these nations toward those that are still officially catholics, say -50 to -100.

 

[Forster]

Originally posted by T. Fournier


snip

Warspite : here I was thinking that if you can dissolve the treaty of Tordesillas, maybe you could hurry up the Council of Trent if it does not happen soon. What's more, I am thinking the Pope does have another instrument in his hand : he can place on both Spain and Austria his Interdict (hope it's the right english word), which will have the following effects : no religious rights like baptism, marriage, mass, etc can be performed in interdicted lands. It did really happen at some points historically and caused great unrest in the concerned countries (unbaptized newborns who died would be condemned to Hell for example!). If you cannot increase the unrest (revolt risks) in Catholic provinces of interdicted nations or you feel it would be too much like cheating (I would feel like that), I would then suggest you diminish the diplomatic standings of these nations toward those that are still officially catholics, say -50 to -100.

Why would that be cheating. If an interdict was issued that would happen. Isn't there already an event that could be used? That one about increased likelihood of revolt? That could be given over several years to accomplish the same thing.

 

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Senator Niccolo Carlotti rises to address the Senate:

Your Excellency, fellow Senators,

Today, I shall not bore you with a long speech because Senator Forster has taken the words out of my mouth. I couldn't agree with him more.

Indeed, the long term plan should be to make the Mid-Earth Sea ours. It is by right!

You know I've always been a supporter of the move to Rome. With the Pope agreeing with us on this, it is safe to assume preparations will begin soon.

It is imperative that we bring our campaign in South Vespucci to its rightful conclusion. Senator Meerschaum's strategy in this matter is most ingenious, I must say. Better than his biscottis, anyway.

Thank you my friends, that will be all for today.

Niccolo goes back to his desk, looking at Senator Forster, who gives him a sly slime and a nod. On his desk, he finds a box of Senator Meerschaum's new "extra-crunchy variety" biscotti, with a note on the box which reads: "Why don't you try a few of those, my friend?"

 

[Xanadu]

game question here....

If you are in the middle of fortifying a province could Spain still walk in? I know that if you have a prov. with no fortification , and are in the middle of building "minimal" it is still considered "none"..but I never had Spain walk into one of my provinces while I was upgrading.
Just thought I would point this out.

 

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*Senator Robert McCollum steps up to the podium, dressed in an Italian officer's uniform*

Greetings fellow Seantors. You will have to excuse my recent absense, as I had some family matters to take care of includign the wedding of a cousin, after which I came down ill. However, I am feeling much better now, and ready to retake my place in this seante.

First of all I would liek to congratualte the Doge on acheiving a goal that has long shone in the hearts and minds of my family. The inclusion of both Poland and Hungary into ouur alliance has done much to solidify our Eastern front. No longer will natiosn such as Turkey be willing to attack us due to our relative isolation. We have taken another step towards peace, and I congratualte you heartily on that.

I would also like to chime in my support for the movign of the capital to Rome. The eternal city has long been the cultural and historical center of Italy, and it seems only right that it should also becoem the political center as well! I am happy to see that the Pope and I both agree in this manner, a rarity I am sure.

Finally, as to our South American ventures, we must press on. As we have seen, the Spanish also have eyes on the Incan lands, and if we are to gain this rich kingdom as our own, we must strike now and strike hard. Perhapse it is tiem for our Pope to repell the horrid treaty that makes it possible for the Spanish to attack in this manner?

Perhapse it is also time to raise another army to defend Italy. As much as I strive for peace, I also beleive in being protected. The Great War was so destructive because we were not ready to fight it, and it was onyl throug hthe genius of our generals, as well as the bbravey of our soldiers that we managed to come through. If another army should be added to the standign military of the Italian Republic, we should easily be able to defend against any threat. I see dark clouds looming on the horizon, let us not be blown away by the storm.

In closing I would like to apologize for the berevity of this speach. IO fear that I am still recovering from my ailment, and I msut return to the field to train with my army. When i return I promsie that I shall be able to bore you with my long windedness again *chuckels before coughing for several minutes*

 

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Originally posted by Xanadu
game question here....

If you are in the middle of fortifying a province could Spain still walk in? I know that if you have a prov. with no fortification , and are in the middle of building "minimal" it is still considered "none"..but I never had Spain walk into one of my provinces while I was upgrading.
Just thought I would point this out.

Actually, that happened to me when I was playing the GC as Portugal. I got so goddamn mad I actually DOWed the Spaniards, seized back my province (and Grenada for good measure) and then converted to Protestantism so that it would never happen again. (Okay, I admit that I may have overreacted . . .)

Since then I've always garrisoned my provinces during the fortification process.

PS - I still don't think the Treaty is the source of our problem. Lima was simply recaptured by the Incas and then captured again by the Spaniards. That can happen in any three-party war.

 

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TO HELL WITH THE SPANISH,

As senator and admiral of a fine fleet. I demand that Doge Misha order the attack on the spanish. We have been at war for too long and gone through too much hardship over this god forsaken war against incans to let the spanish take our gains.

Look at all the money that has been spent, the effort put forth the time alloted to taking for Italy the lands of the Inca. we cannot i say again CANNOT afford to let the spanish use some outdated treaty to scare us into submission. Will our fearless Doge submit to the whims of a nation we have beaten thrice times? NO!

I support the senators who are calling for war agianst the spanish. Its time and always will be time to fight the iberians so long as they try to push our country around. they dont own us, we own them by virtue of wars past. So I call on our great leader Doge Misha to delay no more and declare war on Spain. We have strong allies, our home front is safe, lets send another army to beat the spaniards in americas.

if we are at peace the spanish can take our lands due to tortisillas but at war we can take their land, and defend ourselves, LETS DO IT!

 

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to comment on recent decisions by warspite on the game. I do not disagree with editing the files outside of the game for rpg effects. I think this game is unlike any other ever done so a little manipulation due to the complexity of it all is probably needed. I have no problems with editing of files for leader names and game effects based on our rpg decisions, great idea i think.

keep up the good work warspite, welcome back too!

 

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senator jeep stands up after captian crunch finishes

I agree with the admiral, we have gone too far now, we have too much power to let these spanish dogs push our country around. Who is this pope that issued the treaty of tordisally, I say our great Pope issue a new treaty, the treaty of the ROMAN EMPIRE, its time we teach these heathen wannabees what power is all about.

Doge Misha, declare war on spain at once, we have a mission to complete.

the poles, french and hungarians stand beside us ready to help why worry?

to the senators who wish to rebuild the roman empire in the mediteranean. hmmmm WHY? what good is desert land of old when we have much more booty to claim in the americas and else where?

I stand for Italy

 

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also though i agree with moving the capital to Rome, i think we should wait for a moment when we are at complete peace and have good amount of money. Or will that never happen

 

[Forster]

Senator Jeep, and other distinguished supporters who desire to attack the Spanish cur, this is not the time. We would prevail, of course, but at what cost. This must wait until we make as many preparations as we can. Besides, it would be so much better with our people, as well as our neighbors if we could encourage that trash to declare war on us. Then we will be looked upon as defending our honor!
I have heard an old saying, we would do well to keep in mind, don't rush in where fools fear to tread.

 

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do not listen to this old sicilian who has more knives than pairs of underwear forster does not know the importance of stopping the spanish aggression in the new world, we must take what is rightfully ours. I am tired of the spanish and their imperialistic demands. The time to strike is now....

I call on a vote to show Doge Misha that the senate is for war against the spanish. Who is with me?

 

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I'm not Catholic, so I can't be entirely certain, but I have studied theology, and I have a book of Catholic doctrine open in front of me right now and let me quote what it says about the infallibility of the Pope:

"...the pope teaches infallibly when he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals... Papal infallibility extends only to matters of faith or morals - not to Church customs or most things of everyday life."

So I'm pretty sure that the Treaty of Torsedillas doesn't count as a doctrine of faith or morals. The Pope can rescind it whenever he damn well pleases.