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Originally posted by warspite
Pope Gregory looked over his days work on the new calendar he was preparing with other bishops and scholars. he was excited about making a change but he was also disgusted with the latest rumors coming from the senate halls. He prepared for the Doge a letter of the highest order, it was a Papal Bull.
PAPAL BULL 1577
Being that the authorities, thereby ordained in the highest order to the body of government by our God the father. The Pope, being the heir of Peter, as christs most loyal servant and trustee before his chosen people of power. The church will not tollerate, in any form, of personal deliverance or freedoms exacted upon by the very body that gains its own freedom from the father.
Therefore let it be understood that the church cannot and will not allow for the government to free the people in such a manner as to give them greater power over their authorities that might conflict with the great mother church. Christ would not allow for his followers to preach the gospel for him while he was alive. So as the authority is still alive, shall the followers listen to their spoken word and obey it such. The father ordained his son with powers above his followers and commanded his son to lead his followers who were blind. Thus the authorities ordained by the father now must likewise obey the church and lead the followers (peasants)as the church surely does. For the commoner is only blind and his vision is given to him by the authority. As christ did not give vision to his followers until after his death, so too will the government not give vision to the blind until they are dead and gone. bla bla bla the bull goes on and on you get the picture right
So the Pope issued this Papal Bull before the Doge and to all the churches of the Country and other catholic countries. This did not go over well with freedom seeking peasants but for those who placed their faith above all, it did calm those down. The church bishops and priests and Catholic kings loved the Papal bull because it reinforced their control over their subjects. So basically anyone who further tried to preach, seek, fight for or demand greater freedom for the commoners would hence forth be an enemy of the Catholic Church, the Pope has spoken
meerschaum come quick, we may need your inquisition skills once again
Umm, Warspite, it's your thing, so you can do whatever you like... but I think this Bull may be a bit unhistorical. If the Church were really against the commoners having any say in government they would have excommunicated England long before Henry VIII came around.
Vincent Corniglia, esteemed Ambassador of the Republic, rises once more to the podium, this time to defend his good name. He speaks with rage behind his words, but an icy calm in his tone.
"Who is this that dares slander me and speak lies about my loyalty to the republic? I have ever labored on behalf of Italy to bring her peace, and yet I am repaid with scorn? I listen to the tirades of Sharur Medaken, a man who owes my family his own good name and his very life (we haven't forgotten your own little Heresy scandal), and all I hear is mockery. There is no wisdom or caution in his words, no hint of a desire to consider the good of Italy, there are only words of hate and scorn. Words that work to start quarrels, that seek to tear down and destroy, words that serve only to advance his own interests. He attacks me as if I were the source of the message I came to deliver. And yet I tell you, I am once again but an Ambassador seeking to bring two parties together to make peace.
Friends, if it is betrayal to wish for Italy to be at peace, then I am guilty. If it is treason to seek to end a quarrell with words rather than blows, then judge me a traitor, for that is what I am guilty of. Senator Medaken would have us take up arms against our own people, people who have legitimate complaints against us, and who merely seek justice. Which of us do you think is seeking the Christian path in this matter? Well, what is it that Scriptures tell us? "He who loves a quarrel loves sin" (Proverbs 17:19), and again "It is to a man's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrell" (Proverbs 20:3). Sharur Medaken has called for my expulsion from the Senate, and yet Holy Writ tells us to "drive out the mocker" (Proverbs 22:10). Which of us then is pursuing reconciliation, and which quarrells, strife, and mockery? Which of us seeks to restore harmony to Italy, and which seeks only further glory for himself on the battlefield?
Already you see his devious nature, not only is he so quick to turn on one to whose family he owes so much, but he has lost no time in attmepting to turn others of you, my friends and brothers, against me. Don Forster, he tries to tell you that I would sell Sicily to the rebels; and yet it was I who convinced Garibaldi to withdraw his men from your lands in Sicily as a token of his desire for peace. Pietro, he tries to imply that I have conspired against you, and yet again it was I who secured the freedom of your friends and family from Napoli, those 20 nobles who stand before me even now; again as a token of peace from the Freedom Coalition. Alessandro, you speak so hastily for my censure, your swiftness to judge me harshly cuts me to the quick. You have not even stopped to consider my motives.
My friends, I will pursue this matter no further. As I have said, First Man Garibaldi is an honorable man who desires peace in Italy and justice for the people; but this is his fight, not mine. I agreed to present his case to you because I too desire peace, and would rather see us learn to solve our problems through diplomacy rather than war. Nevertheless, I have delivered my message, and now I will be quit of it. I leave it to you to do with it what you will. If you choose to ignore my words, then there will be bloodshed and I will have no part of it. The blood of the people shall be on your hands."
With this closing rebuke Vincent's eyes were locked on Sharur's, driving the man to nearly cower in his seat from the intensity of Corniglia's condemnation.
(OOC: For those of you who may think I'm copping out by saying Vincent's just a messenger, go back and read my original speech to the Senate. You'll notice that Vincent never personally gave his support to the idea, he did just present them as Garibaldi's peace offer. My only comments in support of the rebels were to say that they had good cause to be unhappy with the nobels.)
"Who is this that dares slander me and speak lies about my loyalty to the republic? I have ever labored on behalf of Italy to bring her peace, and yet I am repaid with scorn? I listen to the tirades of Sharur Medaken, a man who owes my family his own good name and his very life (we haven't forgotten your own little Heresy scandal), and all I hear is mockery. There is no wisdom or caution in his words, no hint of a desire to consider the good of Italy, there are only words of hate and scorn. Words that work to start quarrels, that seek to tear down and destroy, words that serve only to advance his own interests. He attacks me as if I were the source of the message I came to deliver. And yet I tell you, I am once again but an Ambassador seeking to bring two parties together to make peace.
Friends, if it is betrayal to wish for Italy to be at peace, then I am guilty. If it is treason to seek to end a quarrell with words rather than blows, then judge me a traitor, for that is what I am guilty of. Senator Medaken would have us take up arms against our own people, people who have legitimate complaints against us, and who merely seek justice. Which of us do you think is seeking the Christian path in this matter? Well, what is it that Scriptures tell us? "He who loves a quarrel loves sin" (Proverbs 17:19), and again "It is to a man's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrell" (Proverbs 20:3). Sharur Medaken has called for my expulsion from the Senate, and yet Holy Writ tells us to "drive out the mocker" (Proverbs 22:10). Which of us then is pursuing reconciliation, and which quarrells, strife, and mockery? Which of us seeks to restore harmony to Italy, and which seeks only further glory for himself on the battlefield?
Already you see his devious nature, not only is he so quick to turn on one to whose family he owes so much, but he has lost no time in attmepting to turn others of you, my friends and brothers, against me. Don Forster, he tries to tell you that I would sell Sicily to the rebels; and yet it was I who convinced Garibaldi to withdraw his men from your lands in Sicily as a token of his desire for peace. Pietro, he tries to imply that I have conspired against you, and yet again it was I who secured the freedom of your friends and family from Napoli, those 20 nobles who stand before me even now; again as a token of peace from the Freedom Coalition. Alessandro, you speak so hastily for my censure, your swiftness to judge me harshly cuts me to the quick. You have not even stopped to consider my motives.
My friends, I will pursue this matter no further. As I have said, First Man Garibaldi is an honorable man who desires peace in Italy and justice for the people; but this is his fight, not mine. I agreed to present his case to you because I too desire peace, and would rather see us learn to solve our problems through diplomacy rather than war. Nevertheless, I have delivered my message, and now I will be quit of it. I leave it to you to do with it what you will. If you choose to ignore my words, then there will be bloodshed and I will have no part of it. The blood of the people shall be on your hands."
With this closing rebuke Vincent's eyes were locked on Sharur's, driving the man to nearly cower in his seat from the intensity of Corniglia's condemnation.
(OOC: For those of you who may think I'm copping out by saying Vincent's just a messenger, go back and read my original speech to the Senate. You'll notice that Vincent never personally gave his support to the idea, he did just present them as Garibaldi's peace offer. My only comments in support of the rebels were to say that they had good cause to be unhappy with the nobels.)
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Originally posted by Martin I
OOC: ?!? Claudia Sarnoni is to marry Storia? Have I missed something?
Oops, brain fart, I meant Pietro of course. I'll go back and fix it.
Originally posted by Sharur
Ah, ah, ah, Gandalf, not so fast. The English House of Commons was hardly of any consequence in 1576, and your proposals, such as a democratic vote for all (keep in mind that this isn't even a democracy in the first place) go far beyond what the English (who are heretics to boot
OOC (of course):
Better do your homework before you engage in historical debate my good Sharur
. The British House of Commons did in fact have quite significant legislative powers over 100 years before the time period we're discussing. Allow me to quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica: ...the decline of Parliament's judicial function [in the 14th century] led to an increase in its legislative activity, originating now not only from royal initiative but by petitions, or “bills,” framed by groups within Parliament itself. Bills, if assented to by the king, became acts of Parliament; eventually, under King Henry VI (reigned 1422–61; 1470–71), the assent of both the House of Lords—a body now based largely on heredity—and the House of Commons was also required. Under the Tudors, though it was still possible to make law by royal proclamation, the monarchs rarely resorted to such an unpopular measure, and all major political changes were effected by acts of Parliament.
In terms of giving the vote to all, I of course meant all male citizens ("citizen" being defined in the classical sense of a land owner and his family - even Garibaldi would not have thought to give the vote to women or foreign slaves). Again there is precedent for this in the British Parliament. I quote again from the Encyclopedia Britannica:
In 1430 Parliament divided electoral constituencies to the House of Commons into counties and boroughs. Males who owned freehold property worth at least 40 shillings could vote in these elections.
As for England being heretics, all of this occurred long before England turned Protestant, and no one else in Europe (including the Pope, Warspite) seemed to mind much. Which is why I say that this General Assembly idea which Garibaldi has proposed through Vincent is not all that radical or unprecedented. And besides, it really doesn't change much except to give the Doge another set of of advisors to help him make decisions. Why should the Senate object if the Doge wants to hear what others besides themselves have to say before making a decision? After all Proverbs again says "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed" (15:22).
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Antonia Maria walks back to her room
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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It had been a most tiresome evening. As she walked back to her rooms, Antonia Maria breathed a sigh of relief. It had seemed to her as though she were like one of the slaves brought out for inspection before purchase, or like a lamb before a pack of wolves. Very well behaved wolves, but wolves nonetheless. Well, she had played the game too, without giving away her intentions or inclinations.
Once in the suite of rooms in the annex to the ducal palace, she reads the letter that Alessander Storia had sent her, and also looks at the mail that had been forwarded to her, delighted and intrigued by the response of Lady Kantakouzenos in particular. Now so much more made sense.
Made tense by the attack, and further so by the subsequent dinner forced on her before she had had time to compose herself properly, the lady cannot sleep. After a long and luxuriant bath, her servants leave, and the lady decides to relax further in her comfortable chair with a glass of sweet white wine and cinnamon biscuits, the lady reads some poetry. God save her from the fate of Francesca, and guide her feet onto the correct path! God give her strength to overcome her tribulations and make the best choices for her son!
The next one killed herself when love was spurned,
Having betrayed the ashes of Sichaeus earlier;
Then comes Cleopatra, whose lust always burned;
Then behold Helen, for whom the world had to suffer
Years of evil; and see Achilles the grand,
Who at last was beaten by love, the better fighter.
See Paris, Tristan..." And more than a thousand
Shades he showed me, pointing with his finger
And naming all those undone by love's hand.…
Antonia Maria sighed again. His love of poetry had been one of the things that drew her to Emre Pasha, and he had met his death. After a period of grief and intense activity to distract herself, she had slowly been recovering from her loss and even thinking a little about the future course of her own life. In this, both Senator Driver and Lord Corniglia had been instrumental, the former giving her a sense of stability, and the latter, a sense of joy in the world, when disaster had struck again.
Now, she was in the wolves’ den. She had to admit, her suitors were all reasonably attractive. The Doge she had found to be an invigorating personality, though doomed by his policies to be remembered as the man who thrust Italy first into foolish dreams of grandeur, and then, unprepared, into war and civil unrest. His private persona was much more gentle, and he had gallantly engaged her in conversation though the strain of rule showed in the lines graven on his intelligent and ambitious face.
Thomas Kantakouzenos had obviously been told to be on his best behaviour, so he had been rather dull. At his uncle’s ball, he had been much more fun, though, so he was not a completely lost cause. And maybe, with the advice and guidance of a wife, he would leave behind his dissolute life. However, even though Lady Kantakouzenos urged it, and the boy seemed to be well endowed, with both good blood and extensive estates, would she have him for a step-father for Edmundo? But Lady Kantakouzenos appeared to be a kind old lady, and she did not want to disappoint a new-found friend.
Alessander Storia had been unable to take his eyes off her for the entire evening. In truth, she found such attraction both extreme pleasant, and rather frightening. He was also physically extremely attractive, even more so close up. If all had been well, and she were to follow her heart, she could see herself entering an alliance with him, and enjoying herself while doing so. And his letter! Vincent Corniglia and his effulgent compliments paled beside it. And he was certainly the scion of one of the noblest families in Italy.
And that was a problem. Vincent, who was so obviously drawn to her though he rarely made reference to it unless he had drunk a little too much – as at the ball – was not here. Vincent, who was not only apparently fond of her, but had also taken it upon himself to ensure her safety. Vincent, who though he had poor dress sense, had bravely fought her attackers.
Lady Kantakouzenos was right. She must have a husband, soon. But whom?
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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It had been a most tiresome evening. As she walked back to her rooms, Antonia Maria breathed a sigh of relief. It had seemed to her as though she were like one of the slaves brought out for inspection before purchase, or like a lamb before a pack of wolves. Very well behaved wolves, but wolves nonetheless. Well, she had played the game too, without giving away her intentions or inclinations.
Once in the suite of rooms in the annex to the ducal palace, she reads the letter that Alessander Storia had sent her, and also looks at the mail that had been forwarded to her, delighted and intrigued by the response of Lady Kantakouzenos in particular. Now so much more made sense.
Made tense by the attack, and further so by the subsequent dinner forced on her before she had had time to compose herself properly, the lady cannot sleep. After a long and luxuriant bath, her servants leave, and the lady decides to relax further in her comfortable chair with a glass of sweet white wine and cinnamon biscuits, the lady reads some poetry. God save her from the fate of Francesca, and guide her feet onto the correct path! God give her strength to overcome her tribulations and make the best choices for her son!
The next one killed herself when love was spurned,
Having betrayed the ashes of Sichaeus earlier;
Then comes Cleopatra, whose lust always burned;
Then behold Helen, for whom the world had to suffer
Years of evil; and see Achilles the grand,
Who at last was beaten by love, the better fighter.
See Paris, Tristan..." And more than a thousand
Shades he showed me, pointing with his finger
And naming all those undone by love's hand.…
Antonia Maria sighed again. His love of poetry had been one of the things that drew her to Emre Pasha, and he had met his death. After a period of grief and intense activity to distract herself, she had slowly been recovering from her loss and even thinking a little about the future course of her own life. In this, both Senator Driver and Lord Corniglia had been instrumental, the former giving her a sense of stability, and the latter, a sense of joy in the world, when disaster had struck again.
Now, she was in the wolves’ den. She had to admit, her suitors were all reasonably attractive. The Doge she had found to be an invigorating personality, though doomed by his policies to be remembered as the man who thrust Italy first into foolish dreams of grandeur, and then, unprepared, into war and civil unrest. His private persona was much more gentle, and he had gallantly engaged her in conversation though the strain of rule showed in the lines graven on his intelligent and ambitious face.
Thomas Kantakouzenos had obviously been told to be on his best behaviour, so he had been rather dull. At his uncle’s ball, he had been much more fun, though, so he was not a completely lost cause. And maybe, with the advice and guidance of a wife, he would leave behind his dissolute life. However, even though Lady Kantakouzenos urged it, and the boy seemed to be well endowed, with both good blood and extensive estates, would she have him for a step-father for Edmundo? But Lady Kantakouzenos appeared to be a kind old lady, and she did not want to disappoint a new-found friend.
Alessander Storia had been unable to take his eyes off her for the entire evening. In truth, she found such attraction both extreme pleasant, and rather frightening. He was also physically extremely attractive, even more so close up. If all had been well, and she were to follow her heart, she could see herself entering an alliance with him, and enjoying herself while doing so. And his letter! Vincent Corniglia and his effulgent compliments paled beside it. And he was certainly the scion of one of the noblest families in Italy.
And that was a problem. Vincent, who was so obviously drawn to her though he rarely made reference to it unless he had drunk a little too much – as at the ball – was not here. Vincent, who was not only apparently fond of her, but had also taken it upon himself to ensure her safety. Vincent, who though he had poor dress sense, had bravely fought her attackers.
Lady Kantakouzenos was right. She must have a husband, soon. But whom?
On parliaments
AFAIK, Italy had no House of Commons equivalent until the 19th century. Maybe this was because the Italians were either city-states (and the town councils thus served that role) or ruled by the Spaniards or other foreign powers.
However, parliaments/assemblies/estates-general have extremely long histories. They were indeed heavily influenced by their countries' traditions, so that the Estates-General in France (in existence since 1302) was different to the Icelandic Althing (930 AD) which in turn vastly differed from the Imperial Diet (no formal starting point, but codified in 1489), etc etc etc.
From what I know of British history, by 1576, the concept of "King (Queen) in Parliament" as being the supreme authority in the land was firmly established in England, partly as a result of the fact that Henry VIII pushed the Act of Sucession through parliament. Later divions arose because Charles I tried to ignore this.
Therefore, I think that a House of Commons in Italy would not be ahistorical, and will present a proposal soon after I have made my choice on the marriage.
AFAIK, Italy had no House of Commons equivalent until the 19th century. Maybe this was because the Italians were either city-states (and the town councils thus served that role) or ruled by the Spaniards or other foreign powers.
However, parliaments/assemblies/estates-general have extremely long histories. They were indeed heavily influenced by their countries' traditions, so that the Estates-General in France (in existence since 1302) was different to the Icelandic Althing (930 AD) which in turn vastly differed from the Imperial Diet (no formal starting point, but codified in 1489), etc etc etc.
From what I know of British history, by 1576, the concept of "King (Queen) in Parliament" as being the supreme authority in the land was firmly established in England, partly as a result of the fact that Henry VIII pushed the Act of Sucession through parliament. Later divions arose because Charles I tried to ignore this.
Therefore, I think that a House of Commons in Italy would not be ahistorical, and will present a proposal soon after I have made my choice on the marriage.
The lady has decided
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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Some days later, Antonia Maria awakes re-invigorated. Her rest had done her good, and in her dreams, she had finally found the answer to her problem. In the end, it was a choice between Lord Storia and Lord Corniglia, and while the one had extravagantly declared his intentions, and comforted assisuously as she fretted about the peasants' intentions, the other - when he had been around - had not shown more than proper protectoral affection. As for Thomas Kantakouzenos - well, he was even younger than Lord Storia. Moreover, she took to heart the old adage: timeo danao et dona ferentes.
She would marry Alessander Storia.
In leisurely fashion, she is dressed by her ladies, and takes a few bites of a dainty breakfast. She hums to herself; she is pleased with her choice, and would make it clear to all as soon as possible. As her ladies withdraw, a servant arrives, in great haste, and explains that Vincent Corniglia is back, that he is well, but that there is a great commotion in the Senate over his proposals to placate the rebels. Her heart leaps with relief. And then a thought crosses her mind.
She rummages in the books and writings of Emre Pasha, smiles with pleasure at having found what she wants, and, gathering her son, decides to set out for a spot of shopping, at the end of which, she intends to break the news to Lord Corniglia, and ask for his blessing.
Her joy would be complete, but for her son. He is now nearly two years old, appears a fine, strong boy, but has not yet uttered one word. She will pray for him, and everything will be well. With that in mind, the lady leaves the ducal palace, escorted by a light guard.
She is followed.
OOC Request: The lady will break the news at her own leisure, so no-one knows yet, and I would be grateful if we could keep it that way.
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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Some days later, Antonia Maria awakes re-invigorated. Her rest had done her good, and in her dreams, she had finally found the answer to her problem. In the end, it was a choice between Lord Storia and Lord Corniglia, and while the one had extravagantly declared his intentions, and comforted assisuously as she fretted about the peasants' intentions, the other - when he had been around - had not shown more than proper protectoral affection. As for Thomas Kantakouzenos - well, he was even younger than Lord Storia. Moreover, she took to heart the old adage: timeo danao et dona ferentes.
She would marry Alessander Storia.
In leisurely fashion, she is dressed by her ladies, and takes a few bites of a dainty breakfast. She hums to herself; she is pleased with her choice, and would make it clear to all as soon as possible. As her ladies withdraw, a servant arrives, in great haste, and explains that Vincent Corniglia is back, that he is well, but that there is a great commotion in the Senate over his proposals to placate the rebels. Her heart leaps with relief. And then a thought crosses her mind.
She rummages in the books and writings of Emre Pasha, smiles with pleasure at having found what she wants, and, gathering her son, decides to set out for a spot of shopping, at the end of which, she intends to break the news to Lord Corniglia, and ask for his blessing.
Her joy would be complete, but for her son. He is now nearly two years old, appears a fine, strong boy, but has not yet uttered one word. She will pray for him, and everything will be well. With that in mind, the lady leaves the ducal palace, escorted by a light guard.
She is followed.
OOC Request: The lady will break the news at her own leisure, so no-one knows yet, and I would be grateful if we could keep it that way.
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Pietro Carlotti rises to address the Senate, in reaction of Vincent's and Sharur's speeches:
"Fellow Senators!
I know that what I'm about to say will not please you, but I believe Garibaldi's proposition has merit! We have a base for negotiation here! Would you resort to violence when a peaceful outcome is possible? I say we negotiate with this man, listen to him and at least TRY to reach a solution!
The problem here is that if we crush this rebellion with the army, someone will take Garibaldi's place and try again in a few years, or a few decades! The people have told us they are unhappy with us, and we, as a gouvernment, have to listen!
(To the Doge): Your Excellency, I know I called for you to send the armies once before, but the situation has changed! Please consider this solution instead. And, if it ends in bloodshed without us even trying to reach a written agreement, well, like Vincent, I won't have anything to do with it."
Pietro sits down as the Senate once again explodes in shouts and confusion.
"Fellow Senators!
I know that what I'm about to say will not please you, but I believe Garibaldi's proposition has merit! We have a base for negotiation here! Would you resort to violence when a peaceful outcome is possible? I say we negotiate with this man, listen to him and at least TRY to reach a solution!
The problem here is that if we crush this rebellion with the army, someone will take Garibaldi's place and try again in a few years, or a few decades! The people have told us they are unhappy with us, and we, as a gouvernment, have to listen!
(To the Doge): Your Excellency, I know I called for you to send the armies once before, but the situation has changed! Please consider this solution instead. And, if it ends in bloodshed without us even trying to reach a written agreement, well, like Vincent, I won't have anything to do with it."
Pietro sits down as the Senate once again explodes in shouts and confusion.
OOC: Gandalf, you may be right about the English parliament, I didn't research it as thoroughly as you (I don't like doing homework!), although I am still pretty sure that the House of Lords was more powerful, as were the King and Queen, of course. But, in any event, even so, the Senate would not support the proposal, precedent or no, b/c of what I said earlier: the rebellion is not a threat to them, and allowing commoners the right to vote and to have a House would be conceding too much power. Plus, that Papal Bull is going to give them some more disincentive.
Senator Medaken rises to the podium, riding the support of the majority of the Senate
"Senators, first of all I would like to apoligize to Senator Corniglia. My words were a bit to quick and harsh, and I automatically judged him to be the source of this evil, instead of realizing that he was just conveying a message, albeit a message that I myself would not have delivered. However, Senator Corniglia, while I owe your father a debt that is unrepayable, I owe no such debt to you, for you are not your father. I will admit that I have made some grievous mistakes, but I am past all of that; I have redoubled my commitment to our beloved Church, and all of Italia. Which brings me to the point of this speech. Senators, you have all by now received copies of the Papal Bull issued by our beloved Pontiff, Pope Gregory. Does the Pope's wisdom not shine through most clearly in this document? Turns to Pietro Senator Carlotti, I hope that your speech was made before you became aware of the Bull, for I do not wish to think about what will happen if this is not the case. Turns back to the Senate Senators, let us uphold the power and majesty of our Church and Italia, and let us remove this scourge from our lands once and for all! What Senator Corniglia says is true: starting fights is foolish, and can cause great harm. But are we the ones seeking conflict! NO! This Garibaldi has raised an army, sacked our cities, and behaved the way any invader would! I am not looking to pick a fight, I am calling for the defense of our homeland! FOR ITALIA!
The Senate screams in approval for Sharur's speech, as Vincent shakes his head sadly again. Why, thought Vincent, can't such a brilliant man be called something other than a lunatic or a heretic?
Senator Medaken rises to the podium, riding the support of the majority of the Senate
"Senators, first of all I would like to apoligize to Senator Corniglia. My words were a bit to quick and harsh, and I automatically judged him to be the source of this evil, instead of realizing that he was just conveying a message, albeit a message that I myself would not have delivered. However, Senator Corniglia, while I owe your father a debt that is unrepayable, I owe no such debt to you, for you are not your father. I will admit that I have made some grievous mistakes, but I am past all of that; I have redoubled my commitment to our beloved Church, and all of Italia. Which brings me to the point of this speech. Senators, you have all by now received copies of the Papal Bull issued by our beloved Pontiff, Pope Gregory. Does the Pope's wisdom not shine through most clearly in this document? Turns to Pietro Senator Carlotti, I hope that your speech was made before you became aware of the Bull, for I do not wish to think about what will happen if this is not the case. Turns back to the Senate Senators, let us uphold the power and majesty of our Church and Italia, and let us remove this scourge from our lands once and for all! What Senator Corniglia says is true: starting fights is foolish, and can cause great harm. But are we the ones seeking conflict! NO! This Garibaldi has raised an army, sacked our cities, and behaved the way any invader would! I am not looking to pick a fight, I am calling for the defense of our homeland! FOR ITALIA!
The Senate screams in approval for Sharur's speech, as Vincent shakes his head sadly again. Why, thought Vincent, can't such a brilliant man be called something other than a lunatic or a heretic?
OOC, about the bull i cannot say i agree or disagree, its hard to say what would be historical. i do have a few questions for our Pope though. help me out senators
Letter to Pope Grogory XIII from Doge Giovanni Gronchi
Your holiness, i understand fully your concern over the recent events in italy. Also I am certain that my Crusade against the turks is most pleasing to you. We will be victorious against the heathens in the end.
Your Papal Bull is one of wisdom, i see your concern for the church and for the peoples well being. However i am forced to draw the line between the church and state. I have pondered the peoples needs in my heart for a year now. I am forced to because they are increasingly unhappy with my wars and my taxes and laws. If i am to maintaine peace in my realm, i must decide what is best for the country. I think we can both agree on what will be good for my country and your church.
I will not ignore your Bull, however i will reserve the right to tend to my people as i see fit. Therefore i am giving the senate full liberty to exact a fair and just resolution to end the bloodshed and revolution in Italy. The social order will not change, i think that is what you fear the most anyways your holiness. However some amends are to be given to the people and a voice in our government will not violate your church order either. Please work with me to secure peace in Italy holy father, this way we can ensure the Catholic church is protected and Italy is made stable once again.
Thank you holy father for your time, i invite you always to dine with me for further discussion on the matter.
Doge Giovanni <---doges seal
Letter to Pope Grogory XIII from Doge Giovanni Gronchi
Your holiness, i understand fully your concern over the recent events in italy. Also I am certain that my Crusade against the turks is most pleasing to you. We will be victorious against the heathens in the end.
Your Papal Bull is one of wisdom, i see your concern for the church and for the peoples well being. However i am forced to draw the line between the church and state. I have pondered the peoples needs in my heart for a year now. I am forced to because they are increasingly unhappy with my wars and my taxes and laws. If i am to maintaine peace in my realm, i must decide what is best for the country. I think we can both agree on what will be good for my country and your church.
I will not ignore your Bull, however i will reserve the right to tend to my people as i see fit. Therefore i am giving the senate full liberty to exact a fair and just resolution to end the bloodshed and revolution in Italy. The social order will not change, i think that is what you fear the most anyways your holiness. However some amends are to be given to the people and a voice in our government will not violate your church order either. Please work with me to secure peace in Italy holy father, this way we can ensure the Catholic church is protected and Italy is made stable once again.
Thank you holy father for your time, i invite you always to dine with me for further discussion on the matter.
Doge Giovanni
<---doges seal
On the way to buy a (wedding) dress....
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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It was a pleasant day, not too warm, not too humid, and not too smelly. In short, it was the best possible weather in which Antonia Maria could start making arrangements with the famed Roman fashion house of Vermani for her bridal dress. At least her wedding this time could be a great deal more fun than that rather dry ceremony Emre Pasha had performed in front of his guards and her old nurse. But what colour should she choose? Ah, Alessander! Even his name gave her a frisson of delight. It was certainly auspicious.
So it was with a light heart, her head full of fancy for a change, and thoroughly swept off her feet, that the lady sped along the winding streets of Rome in her sedan chair, her son and his nurse following in one behind while two mounted soldiers of the ducal retinue accompanied her. When the little procession arrived at the via Moda, the entrance was as usual backed up. Antonia Maria snorted (in ladylike fashion) and gestured impatiently to her guard and the bearers of both chairs to leave them and go to clear the way.
Really, the Roman traffic was unbearable! She fumed in her chair at the wild gesticulations of the man whose cart had blocked the entrance but would not budge even when her guards politely tried to push him out of the way while the bearers tugged at the reins.
And then, amidst the commotion and the noise, she heard a scream.
The next few moments would be indelibly impressed upon her memory for the rest of her days, but, looking back, she would remember that things had appeared to move very s l o w l y, a s t h o u g h t i m e w e r e s u s p e n d e d. In reality, though Antonia Maria does not know it (the particular gland’s functions not being discovered for quite a while), her hormones had gone into overdrive.
The first thing she would remember was that scream, a young boy’s piercing “Mama!”
The next thing would be looking out of her window to see what was going on, to find a large man with his arms stuck through the windows of the sedan chair behind her, and screams coming from inside. Then all remembrance of noise would be suspended bar a pounding beat in her ears.
The third thing that she would remember would be driving a stiletto under the man’s ribcage as he pulled a bawling Edmundo out. She would also remember the burning hatred in the eyes of the man as he turned around, dropping Edmundo to reach for her, before another stroke, this time by one of her guards’ swords. The last thing she would remember would be collapsing.
When Antonia Maria came to, the guards were anxiously around her, and a small crowd had gathered behind them.
“Where’s Edmundo? Where’s my son!”
“Safe, milady, safe. Look.”
And, sure enough, the little darling was there, looking at her with wide eyes.
“My lady, we searched the body and found this. We thought you had better read it. We don’t know what to do.”
The guard hands over a letter. Slowly, Antonia Maria raises herself, and reads the letter in growing distress, stifles a sob, and turns around to the guard.
“You will tell no-one about this, do you understand! No-one!”
“But, milady, the Doge…”
“Is incapable of maintaining Rome free of assassins! Not a word! We ride to Trani. Now. Don’t look at me like that, find me a horse. We leave, now!”
And so it was that the company rode to Trani, as though the hounds of hell were in pursuit, never stopping for rest nor food, to seek sanctuary amongst Antonia Maria’s own people.
More anon.
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a pleasant day, not too warm, not too humid, and not too smelly. In short, it was the best possible weather in which Antonia Maria could start making arrangements with the famed Roman fashion house of Vermani for her bridal dress. At least her wedding this time could be a great deal more fun than that rather dry ceremony Emre Pasha had performed in front of his guards and her old nurse. But what colour should she choose? Ah, Alessander! Even his name gave her a frisson of delight. It was certainly auspicious.
So it was with a light heart, her head full of fancy for a change, and thoroughly swept off her feet, that the lady sped along the winding streets of Rome in her sedan chair, her son and his nurse following in one behind while two mounted soldiers of the ducal retinue accompanied her. When the little procession arrived at the via Moda, the entrance was as usual backed up. Antonia Maria snorted (in ladylike fashion) and gestured impatiently to her guard and the bearers of both chairs to leave them and go to clear the way.
Really, the Roman traffic was unbearable! She fumed in her chair at the wild gesticulations of the man whose cart had blocked the entrance but would not budge even when her guards politely tried to push him out of the way while the bearers tugged at the reins.
And then, amidst the commotion and the noise, she heard a scream.
The next few moments would be indelibly impressed upon her memory for the rest of her days, but, looking back, she would remember that things had appeared to move very s l o w l y, a s t h o u g h t i m e w e r e s u s p e n d e d. In reality, though Antonia Maria does not know it (the particular gland’s functions not being discovered for quite a while), her hormones had gone into overdrive.
The first thing she would remember was that scream, a young boy’s piercing “Mama!”
The next thing would be looking out of her window to see what was going on, to find a large man with his arms stuck through the windows of the sedan chair behind her, and screams coming from inside. Then all remembrance of noise would be suspended bar a pounding beat in her ears.
The third thing that she would remember would be driving a stiletto under the man’s ribcage as he pulled a bawling Edmundo out. She would also remember the burning hatred in the eyes of the man as he turned around, dropping Edmundo to reach for her, before another stroke, this time by one of her guards’ swords. The last thing she would remember would be collapsing.
When Antonia Maria came to, the guards were anxiously around her, and a small crowd had gathered behind them.
“Where’s Edmundo? Where’s my son!”
“Safe, milady, safe. Look.”
And, sure enough, the little darling was there, looking at her with wide eyes.
“My lady, we searched the body and found this. We thought you had better read it. We don’t know what to do.”
The guard hands over a letter. Slowly, Antonia Maria raises herself, and reads the letter in growing distress, stifles a sob, and turns around to the guard.
“You will tell no-one about this, do you understand! No-one!”
“But, milady, the Doge…”
“Is incapable of maintaining Rome free of assassins! Not a word! We ride to Trani. Now. Don’t look at me like that, find me a horse. We leave, now!”
And so it was that the company rode to Trani, as though the hounds of hell were in pursuit, never stopping for rest nor food, to seek sanctuary amongst Antonia Maria’s own people.
More anon.
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OOC: Just an interesting observation I've been making over the past few weeks... when I joined this board it seemed to be all the rage to write that one's senate speeches caused shock and outrage among the Senate, however, now (I think ever since the McCollum/Driver Constitution debates) it seems to be the "in" thing to write cheers and applause for oneself. The only problem is that the Senate appears quite schizophrenic since they go from cheering for one position to cheering the opposite in the space of two posts.
Personally I think we should write our opinions and let Warspite be the one to tell us how the NPC's are responding, rather than just assuming that 90% or whatever of the Senate agrees with us.
Personally I think we should write our opinions and let Warspite be the one to tell us how the NPC's are responding, rather than just assuming that 90% or whatever of the Senate agrees with us.
As Pietro returns to his seat Vincent clasps his hand to his friend's shoulder, leans over and whispers, "Thank you for your support my friend; I'm glad to see that there are cooler and wiser heads in this Senate than this firebrand Sharur. Nonetheless, be cautious, as Senator Driver learned, and I am recently discovering, speaking out on behalf of peace may be the quickest way to commit political suicide in this blood-thirsty Senate."
The lady rides on
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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On a horse, changed some miles back, but already covered in sweat and foam, her semi-conscious son strapped to her back, the lady Antonia Maria rode on. Tears were streaking down her cheeks. Field and forest, town and tussock rolled past as she relentlessly rode on. The words of the letter burned in her mind’s eye.
“Brother!
I am writing to you to tell you that our plans proceed apace…. you in Rome and I in Constantinople…. weaklings will be destroyed…. our father’s plans finally reach fruition…. and I have sent a man, skilled among the Turks, to kill the bastard so that you can marry her without complications.”
It had been signed, “Your loving brother, Giuseppe.”
She shuddered. To think that she had been planning to marry that monster. No man was trustworthy. She would enter a convent! She would take ship to Vespucci. She would die, but remain free! Anything, anything to get out of Italy and its cesspool of politics.
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a horse, changed some miles back, but already covered in sweat and foam, her semi-conscious son strapped to her back, the lady Antonia Maria rode on. Tears were streaking down her cheeks. Field and forest, town and tussock rolled past as she relentlessly rode on. The words of the letter burned in her mind’s eye.
“Brother!
I am writing to you to tell you that our plans proceed apace…. you in Rome and I in Constantinople…. weaklings will be destroyed…. our father’s plans finally reach fruition…. and I have sent a man, skilled among the Turks, to kill the bastard so that you can marry her without complications.”
It had been signed, “Your loving brother, Giuseppe.”
She shuddered. To think that she had been planning to marry that monster. No man was trustworthy. She would enter a convent! She would take ship to Vespucci. She would die, but remain free! Anything, anything to get out of Italy and its cesspool of politics.
Okay Sharur, my mailbox is completely empty now so if you still want to pm you can...
Sorry, 'bout that.
Sorry, 'bout that.
The lady prays for a deliverer
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
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Much much later, in a building surrounded by guards, and with guards inside, a terrified chaplain wacthing her, and her son safe and asleep in a makeshift cot beside her, the lady Antonia Maria prays in the recently completed lady chapel.
“Holy Mother, I beg you, have pity on a poor mother who seeks only to save her son….”
Antonia Maria Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1546, Brindisi, m. 1575 Emre Pasha (d.1576), one son: Edmundo Massimo Romeo Emerigo Bravo-Bonaventure, b. 1575, Bari
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much much later, in a building surrounded by guards, and with guards inside, a terrified chaplain wacthing her, and her son safe and asleep in a makeshift cot beside her, the lady Antonia Maria prays in the recently completed lady chapel.
“Holy Mother, I beg you, have pity on a poor mother who seeks only to save her son….”
Ok I will spare all of you the agony of miserable writing skills...
By-Tor is on the hunt for the woman from the market. He wants a child!
By-Tor is on the hunt for the woman from the market. He wants a child!
The advisor to the Doge had finished explaining that the young Antonia Maria had chosen Allesandro as a suiter. Giovanni was not devasteted but he was troubled. Then he was informed that the lady had gone missing after an incident in the roman bizarre. Now this devastated Giovanni as he took it personally not being able to protect her or seeing her harmed in his own capital city.
His mind was continuously clouded with the termoil around him. So many things were happening at once. He just didnt feel the part to handle so many important issues. His country was at war with Turkey with no end in sight, he had a growing civil war on his hands and now he openly challenged the Popes right to restrict his senates authority to decide for Italy. Now perhaps the one woman he had respect for was taken from under his very nose, he was so ashamed but little did he know that she was safe and running off to her own devices.
Giovanni, thinking that Maria was taken captive by the peasants ordered for the army to crack down on the commoners and begin searches in suspicious areas. Rome and surrounding areas were suddenly thrust into a state of martial law. Heads would roll until the lady of his dreams would be found and the culprits of her kidnapping brought to justice.
OOC: the advisor told giovanni that maria was attacked in the market place and that after which she has disappeared. So it was natural for many to believe she might have been kidnapped like vincent was before by rebels. After all as vincent said, it was her they were after right.
His mind was continuously clouded with the termoil around him. So many things were happening at once. He just didnt feel the part to handle so many important issues. His country was at war with Turkey with no end in sight, he had a growing civil war on his hands and now he openly challenged the Popes right to restrict his senates authority to decide for Italy. Now perhaps the one woman he had respect for was taken from under his very nose, he was so ashamed but little did he know that she was safe and running off to her own devices.
Giovanni, thinking that Maria was taken captive by the peasants ordered for the army to crack down on the commoners and begin searches in suspicious areas. Rome and surrounding areas were suddenly thrust into a state of martial law. Heads would roll until the lady of his dreams would be found and the culprits of her kidnapping brought to justice.
OOC: the advisor told giovanni that maria was attacked in the market place and that after which she has disappeared. So it was natural for many to believe she might have been kidnapped like vincent was before by rebels. After all as vincent said, it was her they were after right.
As Vincent left the Halls of the Senate for that day he wondered where he could find the Lady Antonia Maria. He desperately wanted to see her and tell her of the realization he had come to while imprisoned for her sake in Naples. He wanted to make sure she knew of his love for her. Not having heard what even became of her after that fateful night, he prayed that she had escaped unharmed...