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Warspite

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ITALY (Roman Empire)aar

This is an alternative to history aar, :) a what if things happened different before 1492 that caused some of the feuding duchies and lords of north italy to unite rather than stay seperate.

One thing is clear, that attempts were made to unite italy back then, however they failed for different reason. Lets say events took place that allowed north italy to unite, it could have happened quite easily as a matter of fact. Gian Galeazzo of Milan who subdued much of the romagna and as far south as tuscan city states. Milan who virtually controlled genoa by mid 15th century. Venice who had become a powerful force in the region, emerging as a world power, already a trade empire. What if the royal marriages between milan and Venice had drawn them closer rather than their pride split them apart. What if pressures from france and turks caused nobles of n italy to seek protection. Which they did when Venice, Florence, Verona and other city states joined a league of protection for 25 years in 15th century. Lastly what if Cesare Centurione had survived past his prime and his dream and work to unite n italy come to being. He already had the italian culture melding, had he lived longer he may have gotten more done. what if?

This Italian Scenario was created simply by joining Venice (capital), Milan, Genoa, Modena, Tuscany into one. Leaders have been changed to include folks from all the united countries (im playing under venice but not all the leaders are venetian from the game) Because genoa and Venice were strong republics at that date, i suppose italy is a republic, the duchies just falling in line having seats in the senate. Im also playing in version 1.8 igc 2.0 (awesome) with poor taxes with bad stability setting, free ireland, free norway, and austria and spain share the dutch. This scenario will be played on a somewhat game/story line basis. meaning im going to play it and add in some historical stuff and some of my own, what if, stuff too. Please let me know if the format is good or not, i dont write these for my own enjoyment but for everyones.so if it sucks, ill go back to drawing board.

1488 Augustino Barbarigo, the Doge of Venice is elected by the now, Italian senate to be the Doge of the united Republic of Italy. He will basically share power in the republics beginnings with Giovanni Galeaz of Milan to help with the unification process as stability is low, trade and taxes suffering and lords and dukes not for the unification resist the new government. Pressure from the Pope also comes as he refuses to recognize the new country as it threatens his control of the region. The beginnings of Italy would be troublesome for sure.

1492 To further unite the nobles of Italy Augustino steps down allowing Giovanni Galeaz to become the Doge of Italy. this is approved by the italian senate who met in Venice and drew up new laws and plans for the country. Giovanni would calm fears and keep peace in Italy. Stability was now at highest levels and taxes flowed in from the rich states.

In Jan Spain conquered Grenada and further demanded the new Italian republic honor the pope and revert back to seperate states. Near excommunication, Giovanni basically payed off the Pope for leniancy in the matter. However relations with Spain were critical.

Seeking a friend incase of French or Spanish intervention in the fledgling country affairs. Giovanni sought to improve relations with Austria. A loan was taken for funds to help in the campaign to ally with Austria, which did normalize relations, infact the emperor Maximilian payed a visit to Venice which he greatly enjoyed. However he was under pressure from Spain and France and refused both a royal marriage and alliance with the new Italy. This was a crushing blow to Giovanni as he desperately needed an ally incase of invasion from the west or even the turks.

Hope came in mid 1492 when turkey invaded the mamelukes, relieving some pressure there. Hungary entered into a royal marriage with Giovanni. Poland also entered a royal marriage with Italy but both Hungary and Poland refused to ally with her as Italy seemed like a lamb prepared for the slaughter as french and spanish eyes gazed upon her.

News from spain that they had discovered new land far west would take their attention from conquest in Italy to focus on exploration. France declared war on England and Naples to spite englands royal marriage to Naples and try to gain calais. That war would drag on into 1494 where in august england would cede calais to France. That war may have saved Italy some time however as france and her allies averted attention from them.
500 ducats spent and still no ally, Giovanni failed to gain a friend but did build a tax structure in the new republic and helped to unite and nationalize the north italian states.

1493
Russia upon the request of Portuguese nobles accepted Italy into their alliance in March. Portugal wanted Italian support incase Spain decided to challenge portuguese exploration efforts. Russia truely cared less about Portugals explorations or Italys troubles as they had their eyes on Kazan which they invaded in July. Giovanni knowing he could do nothing to help russia, joined the war but it was known only to a few in high places that Italy was even at war. Basically russia was on her own as Italy negotiated in peace with Portugal on how to defend against any Spanish or French aggression.

Venetian trade was still dominant in the mediteranean. Italy prospered from its monopoly there and in genoa. the economy thrived as taxes flowed into the new treasury. United Italy had some advantages especially in the way of money. This also helped to unite the Italian nobles, once culture and people meshed Italy would grow stronger still.

Oct 25 another member of the Italian-Russo alliance, Pskov was invaded by the knights and Prussia. Italy and Russia joined in the war. Yet again Giovanni did this only to keep relations with allied members strong, he knew no war would come to Italy through this. Italy gained favor in europe due to its efforts to gain acceptance in the world community. Most still considered Italy just Venice but it would soon be apparent that Venice was just another part of a greater whole.

1494 Giovanni Galeaz passes away and the senate elects once again. Augustino Barbarigo to be Doge. Augustino the unifyer as he was called. Really was pro venetian but he was into the unification to draw money out of other italian states thinking once the italy idea fell apart, Venice would be stronger. He was mistaken after Giovannis rule however. So now he realized Venice power was just a thing of the past and it was now Italy power. As a venetian in rule of Italy he was under the watchful eye of the italian senate to make sure he doesnt try to run away with power.

The economy of 1494 was 36.5d, tax that year was 130d, treasury was at 429d and debt at 200d with stabiity at +3
The navy had (Venice fleet 28/30/5) (Genoa fleet 29/2/5)
The arsenal of Venice was able to pump out ships of quality at incredible rates as well, Italies main naval base. The army with the support of the Borgia. Was 42,000 infantry, 13,000 cavalry and 3 cannon. It was split up among the states of the republic.

Feb 1494 Ferdinand II of Naples seiges Papal territory in the Romagna , all papal attacks are repulsed. However that august France and England make peace and Naples siege comes to an end. (england gives calais to france as stated before)

Italy was still at war, but the distant wars in russia had no effect on her.
Also the Mamelukes gave Lebanon to the turks for peace. The Mamelukes shared strong relations with Italy as they traded heavily and had a common enemy.... Ottoman Turks!

Oct 9th a new war would bring allot of europe to fear. France with allies savoy, navarra, the pope, and helvetia declare war on Austria and her ally Hungary. The seesaw battles in the mountains of Helvetia cost the lives of many. Emperor maximilian moved his troops through Italy to get to papal states. Augustino respected and worked with the holy roman emperor, which was healthy for Italy in the long run:)

The year 1494 ended with celebrations in Milan, Genoa and Venice to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the signing of treaty of Verona. Which created the Republic of Italy.

screenshots coming
more later
 
Last edited:

Mariani

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man, talk about yer far-fetched scenarios. :D
Italy, peaceably united in 1492? jeez...though it's a goal I shoot for in most of my GCs (never underestimate the power of heritage and native bloode in historical strategy games), "i risorgimenti" in my games is NEVER acheived without a pretty expansive war...

...the bummer with unifying Italy under Venice is all those vestigial Dalmatian provinces and Greek islands that have turkish causi belli all over 'em...talk about pains in the arse...

great concept, though, show 'em whatcha got. :)
(TAKE OUT THE POPE)
 

Warspite

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Originally posted by Cockney
Great AAR, lets hope that your Italy fairs better in war than real life Italy ;)

SLAM! ouch to italians hehe.

I hope i fair better in war too, especially considering russia and portugal are my allies and everyone else hates my guts thanks to venice.
 

Warspite

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1495

Within a 10 day period (jan25-feb5) Italy went from two wars to none. Kazan gave territory to Russia for peace, it was obvious this would be a short peace.
The knights of the order payed Pskov 29d for peace , russia gave the knights a fight they didnt bargain for:) Pskov was now safe again.

Italy might as well not even been at war, the Russian wars effected her not. Instead the wars that did effect the fledgling republic raged around her.

5000 austrians that traunced through italian hre land to reach Romagna lost their battle against 14,000 of the popes alter boys. The Pope was delighted when Augustino refused the austrians stay and rest in his land. This was some revenge for Austrias rejection of Italy in 1494 after they took 500ducats and gave nothing back to help Italy. The austrian emperor sent a letter to the Italian senate saying simply "is your allegiance to the Pope or the emperor?" the senate sent a letter back saying "for 500ducats we may consider your question"

The fact was Italy had no idea how to deal with this confusing war around her. Should she be on the popes and frances side who could have incredible effect on Italys future. then again should the republic side with the emperor of the west who commanded strong armies in austria, but who also once before denied Italy. Augustino had little love for the papacy or for greedy french and spanish. However he knew enough that Austria and the holy roman emporer could not yet hold a candle to the pope and her ally frances power in the region.

Italy sent diplomats to spain, france and the pope that year (1495) to improve existing terrible relations. Those relations would indeed improve slightly but anything was good for now. fra -119 spa -135 p.s. -170 . Obviously Italy had lots of work to do in that area :D
considering relations with austria were -7

Feb16 Wurtemburg declared war on Bavaria after the latter insulted the prince of wurtemburg directly. the emperor didnt have time to calm the storm, so hostilities ensued that saw fierce battles. Wurtemburg lost most of the fight but in sept was sieging bavaria castle fast. Bavaria would steal the show though and in october Bavaria annexed wurtemburg, the upset prince given complimentary stay in a bavarian nut house.:eek:

France took control over austrian alsace,
A miraculous victory for austrian forces in helvetia however. 30,000 austrians attack 60,000 french/navarran force there. In a pitch battle that lasted a month nearly, the french were routed and another austrian siege began. Helvetia was a hard nut to crack though, it would cost Austria too much in lost forces.

December, italy reaches High renaisance infrastructure.
as winter settled in, the franco-austrian war slowed.



Poll..... who should i try to ally with? France and the Pope or Austria-Hungary???? hmmmm i want to annex the pope some day, i also want the gold in austria, right now i just want a good ally once the storm hits. YOu know what though, not allying with austria earlier might have been a mixed blessing considering if i had, i would be in a huge war right now, instead i get to watch. ahhh lifes circumstances! I ASK MY READERS OF THIS AAR TO BE MY SENATE!!!! I ASK A QUESTION, YOUR REPLIES WILL MOST LIKELY BE THE WAY I REACT IN THE GAME.... can you do that? should be interesting.
 
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Shadowstrike

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Go with France. You have your back secured, and you could troucne Austria if the French ever got through. Think about Styria......
 

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France

How are Naples as well as the smaller German states (Hessen, Saxony, Hessen) aligned?
 

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I'd say France for now.
How are the Palatinat, Hessen, Cologne and Kleves aligned ? They can be a great boon against France or Spain.
Also for the future of Italy keep a careful eye on Naples (they have nice borders with both the Pope and Spanish Sicily).
 

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I agree

Go with France (although I'm loathe to say it - being a Brit :D).

As the other guys have already pointed out, look at some of the German states, they could be a useful addition.
 

Warspite

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1496 economy 38.3 //treasury 769d//stab +3//debt -200d

France takes control of Alsace from Austria, however from that point on french and savoy forces (100,000men) just sat and watched helvetia and austria fight it out.

Feb26 England invades Ireland in which ireland gave connaught for peace.

By the end of 1496 Austria and Hungary still sieging helvetia were losing about 80,000men due to attrition. Helvetia no closer to falling, poor austrians.

1497 economy 37.9//treasury 912//taxes 137d//debt -200d//stab +3

The Doge meets with the senate (thanks everyone who wrote your opinion) and the vote was unanimous to side with former enemies france and the pope. Austria just seemed like a dead end. So plans were put into action to improve relations with france and the pope and to attack Austria, that would come in time, have to prepare..

In the mean time during 1497 astro-hungarian forces all year again sieged helvetia and finally broke through in sep, the hungarian flag flew over helvetia but in a huge deal between helvetia and hungary was that hungary gave helvetia back its castle for 250d for peace. Austria was still at war though:) you could hear the screams of the emperor as his only ally double timed him before his eyes. now austria had to start all over again in helvetia.

That franco - austrian war got interesting now that hungary was out of it. France began sieging zeeland of austria. Austria began seiging french lands. Austria for two years exhausted its male population with war so Italy prepared its army at austrian borders.

NOV 200d loan payed off

1498 economy 38.1//treasury 858d// no debt//stab +3

Helvetian forces drove the exhausted austrians out of its home land. now austria was clearly on the defensive. Italy waited for its new cannons to be completed before war. Also a defense wall (lvl 2) was built in Istria because when war was declared on austria, hungary would most likely join with her 40,000men.

SEP austria and helvetia sign peace but france still sieged austrian lands, thanks to the hre, austrian troops could still walk through helvetia.
Austria was stil losing many battles in france itself.

1499 economy 38.8//treasury 767d // stab +3

June- Poland in a quick war, annexes Prussia

July- Italy ends long negotiations with France and the Pope relations improve to (france +123 pope -57) Italy payed a little something there for good measure :) Then Italy declared war on Austria as approved by the senate and stability dropped to 0

Aug-- disaster in Istria for the Italian 2nd army. 32,000 hungarians soundly defeated the Italian 38,000 man army in Istria. The hungarians didnt know where to go and during the whole war went back and forth between lands doing nothing to help Austria.

Bohemia joined the war on the side of Austria (jerks) not to mention Austria got so angry at Italy they stopped sieging french and all came to beat up Italy. ouch! MIlan was sieged by no fewer than 50,000 austrian allies.

NOV-- Italy with its 1st army of 12/3/3 sieged and took styria in just a couple months (thanks venetian generals 1/1/1/1) they went on to vienna for the check mate. Italy won a battle in croatia against hungarian recruits. The tide was turning in favor of Italy.

The war that looked like a disaster from the beginning within a half year turned around for Italy and now they commanded a shakey advantage.

1500--economy 43.3//treasury 697d// stab 0

France controls zeeland but gives no help to Italy otherwise, doge is not too happy with that, but hey, there french right?

Jan--in a another war, teutonic order gives kurland to Moldavia as part of peace in a war against poland. GO MOLDAVIA!!!! :D

Feb-- revolt in cyprus as they rebel against war and religious pressures.

Italys 1st army in vienna beat off repeated attacks by hungary and bohemia. They were on a mission and in may as vienna was about to fall, the emperor gave Italy styria for peace WHOOHOOO CELEBRATIONS BEGAN IN VENICE AND MILAN AS THE GOLD RUSH STARTED!!!!!! THE WAR WAS OVER THE WAR WAS OVER, ITALY WAS VICTORIOUS AND RICH :D

In an act of gratitude, the Doge Augustino thanked the senate who helped in his decision to strike on austria and begin relations with france.

Bohemia after the war became vassals of the defeated emperor in austria. Austria also was forced to cede zeeland to france for peace. France thanked Italy for its help and plans were being set for an alliance however Italy was still stuck in an alliance with Russia and couldnt afford to back out as it was in poor stability now and revolts to squash.

corfu revolted in september so now two revolts raged on Italy. Also Italy was forced to join another phony war with russia against kazan. The doge had a perfect chance to dishonor the alliance but he wanted to keep the stability respectable for taxes sake and he also said Italy is not going to be a dishonorable country.

So he set about the task of getting italy stable again, he put all money into stability and two fine arts acadamies in venice and florence helped out. Italy squashed the revolt in corfu easily in december 1500, then sailed towards cyprus with that same victorious 1st army.

relations thus far.... austria -126 spain -129 bavaria -80 poland -55 pope -55 france +123 russia +53
 
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Warspite

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1501 economy 44.5//treasury 684d//stab +2

Kazan demanded Italy pay 250d for peace, HA! the Doge laughed in their diplomats face.

APR rebels in cyprus are crushed and Italy adjusts its religious tolerance levels to stop orthodox revolts in its island possessions.

JUN Russia pounded Kazan and so Kazan accepted Italys white peace proposal.

NOV huge revolt in styria, 53,000 rebels tried to win back the gold lands for austria. So Augustino raised 19000 men in venice. Doge Augustino ended his term (max 8 years as doge)

1502 economy 37.9//treasury 568d//stab +3

the economy slumped as the gold from styria stopped flowing but by the beginning of the year the stability was back to max.

New Doge elected in january, he was a native of Styria whome Italy hoped would stop the revolts. however he could do nothing and in march he left Italy with some cash to Austria (traitor)

A new doge was elected in march

Doge Leonardo Loredan the wise.

Leonardo sent his victorious army now at 44,000 strong, into styria to crush the rebels which was easily done. Once peace and stability was restored to the Italian land. Leonardo entered into a royal marriage with france. Conditions were that france stop claims of Italian land (historical rather than game thing) Italy would then leave its alliance it had with Russia and in August joined the alliance with France/savoy/the pope/brittany/navarra and Helvetia.

August england invades and annexes ireland easily.

1503 economy 44.8//treasury 675//stab +2

the economy jumped as gold flowed once again.
In march russia and denmark declared war on Sweden. this time Italy didnt have to join russia:)

december russia annexes Kazan , russia is starting to blossom.

Doge leonardo loredan meets with the senate....

POll--- now that Italy is allied with France and others, What should be the next task????? Italy is getting stronger now. but still is fragile compared to france, austria, spain etc..

should Italy stay in peace and build infrastructure or should she go to war and with new allies take some more land???????

Italy also has 6 settlers waiting, Italy has money to purchase an explorer (set up game to buy explorers for 250d) should italy begin explorations??????


what do you all think?
 
Last edited:

Warspite

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ALLIANCES

england/mamelukes

spain/lorraine/st john/cologne/scotland/portugal

thuringen/saxony/bavaria/palitanat/hessen

brandenburg/hannover

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france/savoy/papal states/brittny/navarra/helvetia/Italy
 

unmerged(2351)

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Consolidation

Consolidate and build up tech levels & econmony. Try and expand by colonisation rather than conquest for the moment.

What's you view of the world, are you able to see anywhere outside of Europe ?
 

Mariani

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Originally posted by warspite


Italy also has 6 settlers waiting, Italy has money to purchase an explorer (set up game to buy explorers for 250d) should italy begin explorations??????


what what WHAT? how'd you manage that one?!? share with the class! :D
 

Misha

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France or Austria?

Well, after taking the gold fields of Styria, your decision is probably already made, but I concur with those that suggest joining the French alliance. The major advantage of this approach is that you are then in position to diploannex Savoy before the rapacious French can do so. Once that operation is complete, you can give serious consideration to leaving the alliance for better accomodations - one that will allow you to annex the Papal States, & continue your quest for risorgimento.
 

unmerged(3438)

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Agree with Misha about Savoy (after all you look to have money to spend).
Also try and settle somewhere (if you do not know outside Europe/Mediterranean area, you try and exchange discoveries with France or Middle East power like Persia if good relationship; not very hopeful however). I would guess the best place to colonize is either North America or India (the second is much richer but you may not know where it is.)
If there should be a war between the french and english alliances and the pope joins in you may try and grab Naples (who are still allies of England if I am not mistaken); however be careful not to do the hard work for the pope.
Apart from that Italy is still a small fry on the european scene, so should not make big waves. Develop and protect our territories (.:) our : well we're supposed to be Senate members!)