Italy or Soviets, which do you think is coming first?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

walliart

Corporal
77 Badges
Aug 25, 2019
26
31
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
2. "Fortifications, artillery, foreign aid - will be of no value, unless the ordinary soldier knows that it is HE guarding his country. Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim". You must be graitfull to soviet soldiers. You dont have to learn german because they died in WW2
The great finish general must have been spoken these words when he was trying desperately to join USSR but Stalin peacefully refused him?
I must confess that i prefer to learn german than to see again the "peace loving" red army in my country.

5. Pal, seriosly? USSR was a confederation of republics. And each had its own government. Not mention that they where free to leave Union and it was wrote in it constitution. Show me where in USA constitution is mentioned that states can leave it? Last try ended in civil war! I knew that western propaganda tells USSR was the Red Russian Empire of Evil, but it is propaganda. The truth is - USSR stood agaist all Europe in WW2 and beat nazi monster in its lair.

Again you are right. Finland wage war against USSR to give them Karellia. Poland wage war to give Stalin all the eastern lands. Hell, Baltics manage only by threating Stalin with exclusion from communist party to join peacefully the USSR. Romania gave its eastern lands to Stalin and USSR reluctanly agreed after getting all the gold. Even now Ukraine is struggling to reform USSR but brave Russia resist by "volunteers". Damn history is so twisted at Moskow. Shall we talk about how Georgia, Adjerbajan , Armenia, and all the other republics fight they way in? USSR resisted bravely but had to agree in the end to welcome them. I see now Georgia is so keen to enter again into "mother" Russia. Seriously "pal"?
 
  • 9
  • 6
  • 2Like
Reactions:

-=Cheburashka=-

Private
Nov 18, 2019
21
33
The great finish general must have been spoken these words when he was trying desperately to join USSR but Stalin peacefully refused him?
I must confess that i prefer to learn german than to see again the "peace loving" red army in my country.



Again you are right. Finland wage war against USSR to give them Karellia. Poland wage war to give Stalin all the eastern lands. Hell, Baltics manage only by threating Stalin with exclusion from communist party to join peacefully the USSR. Romania gave its eastern lands to Stalin and USSR reluctanly agreed after getting all the gold. Even now Ukraine is struggling to reform USSR but brave Russia resist by "volunteers". Damn history is so twisted at Moskow. Shall we talk about how Georgia, Adjerbajan , Armenia, and all the other republics fight they way in? USSR resisted bravely but had to agree in the end to welcome them. I see now Georgia is so keen to enter again into "mother" Russia. Seriously "pal"?

1. Your Great Finnish General was general of Russian Imperial Army at firstplace.
2. Finns refused peaceful land changing. You see, Stalin dont demand land from Finland, he offer them a compensation. He cant risk to have Finland border at 30 km near Leningrad. It was range of heavy artillery fire.
3. Romania gave Transilvania to Hungary and Dobruja to Bulgaria thanks to your german-nazi friends. Not mention industry that was transported to Reich almost for free. There was even anti-german rebellion, crushed by nazi. You saw Red Army in your country only because it allied with Hitler and decleared war on USSR (and eventually the rest of allies). Soviets have their payback. It was their right since your soldiers began to kill their soldiers and civilians. Be greatfull that Soviets dont have nukes that time. USA not just occupied Japs but nuked them for the same doings.
4. Your country became independent only because Russian Empire defeated ottomans. And then Romania annexed Bukovina and Bessarabia when RE collapsed in civil war. Very greatfull, isnt it? Russian soldiers died for your counry both in 1877 Russo-Turkish war and WW1 and you repayed them stabbing knife in back. Just nice. Do i need to mention that Soviet Ukraine never officially accepted that annexation and agreed with it, so USSR dont "captured" "eastern romanian lands". USSR returned their lands back with full Hitler approval by the way. Poland captured western Ukraine and Belorussia in 1922. And they too accuse USSR in returning what was thier in 1939.
5. Modern Russia isnt USSR, they are capitalists now and capitalism lives by expansion. Not mention that Russia just have to defend itself against groving USA influence in former soviet republics. Using US methods by he way. Because that was USA and EU that sponsored "revolution of dignity" in Ukraine in 2014, aiding nationalists marginals and corrupted oligarhy in getting to power. Marginals that immediatly began to opress russian-speacking population (which is at least 1/3 of all ukrainians) And they do same to Georgia and other former republics since SU collapsed. I'd like to see how long it takes for USA to invade Mexico if Russia do same thing there. Because they almoust started WW3 when SU tried to parry US rockets in Tukey, by plaicing their own on Cuba.
6. Nice double standarts, dont you think? NATO can "defend USA interest" on all continents using smart, carpet bombs and governments overthroving, Russia cant defent theirs near it own borders))) If you aggro the bear - it will bite, even if it is wounded and weackened. That is simple.

P.S. Maybe it was better for Stalin to stop soviet armies at border in 1944 saving hundreds of thousands soviet soldiers and leave all Europe under Reich boots with it death camps, holocost and other pleasures of nazi regime.
 
Last edited:
  • 13
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:

mursolini

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Feb 1, 2014
3.353
3.539
  • Darkest Hour
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II
5. Pal, seriosly? USSR was a confederation of republics. And each had its own government. Not mention that they where free to leave Union and it was wrote in it constitution. Show me where in USA constitution is mentioned that states can leave it? Last try ended in civil war!
USSR's constitution was bullshit, the state lived by the will of Bolshevik and later Communist party, and people who disliked any aspect, were dealt by NKVD/KGB.
For example 17th Congress of Bolsheviks party, if you know what I mean.
I knew that western propaganda tells USSR was the Red Russian Empire of Evil, but it is propaganda. The truth is - USSR stood agaist all Europe in WW2 and beat nazi monster in its lair
Yes, because Britain, Sweden, Spain, Portugal are not Europe. And obviously, a proportional to population part of wermacht or force invading USSR was Polish, French, Czech, Serbian, and Greek.

If you want to lie, at least put some effort into it.
2. Finns refused peaceful land changing. You see, Stalin dont demand land from Finland, he offer them a compensation. He cant risk to have Finland border at 30 km near Leningrad. It was range of heavy artillery fire.
Refusal to give up territory is not a reason for war, in fact, the entire proposal was just a ride, so people like you could claim that Soviets didn't just attack Finland.
3. Romania gave Transilvania to Hungary and Dobruja to Bulgaria thanks to your german-nazi friends. Not mention industry that was transported to Reich almost for free. There was even anti-german rebellion, crushed by nazi. You saw Red Army in your country only because it allied with Hitler and decleared war on USSR (and eventually the rest of allies). Soviets have their payback. It was their right since your soldiers bagan to kill their soldiers and civilians. Be greatfull that Soviets dont have nukes that time. USA not just occupied Japs but nuked them for the same doings.
4. Your country became independent only because Russian Empire defeated ottomans. And then Romania annexed Bukovina and Bessarabia when RE collapsed in civil war. Very greatfull, isnt it? Russian soldiers died for your counry both in 1877 Russo-Turkish war and WW1 and you repayed them stabbing knife in back. Just nice. Do i need to mention that Soviet Ukraine never officially accepted that annexation and agreed with it, so USSR dont "captured" "eastern romanian lands". USSR returned their lands back with full Hitler approval by the way. Poland captured western Ukraine and Belorussia in 1922. And they too accuse USSR in returning what was thier in 1939.
Yes, yes, any place Russian soldier died in, is rightful Russian soil, and neither Russian soldier nor leadership ever asked if locals ever wanted or needed that lifetime, irreparable debt that Russians just put on them, and demand payment, forever.
5. Modern Russia isnt USSR, they are capitalists now and capitalism lives by expansion. Not mention that Russia just have to defend itself against groving USA influence in former soviet republics. Using US methods by he way. Because that was USA and EU that sponsored "revolution of dignity" in Ukraine in 2014, aiding nationalists marginals and corrupted oligarhy in getting to power. Marginals that immediatly began to opress russian-speacking population (which is at least 1/3 of all ukrainians) And they do same to Georgia and other former republics since SU collapsed. I'd like to see how long it takes for USA to invade Mexico if Russia do same thing there. Because they almoust started WW3 when SU tried to parry US rockets in Tukey, by plaicing their own on Cuba.
Of course. Any country that Russia dislikes, it can invade, for any reason.

As for Ukraine, between Yanukovich fleeing on 21 February,
Organization of public meetings started on February 22, and Russian troops seizing Crimean legislation on 27th of February, obviously vast, immeasurable quantities of Russian speakers had gotten discriminated.
Again, at least the "sudden" rapid desire of cessation is more believable. But in practice, Russian just seized what it could, because it wanted. The rest is bullshit.

As for Cuban crisis, well, USSR had only invaded South Korea at that point, after WW2, and threatened to invade Turkey, which is why it got into NATO. Nobody forced USSR to threaten Turkey.
6. Nice double standarts, dont you think? NATO can "defend USA interest" on all continents using smart, carpet bombs and governments overthroving, Russia cant defent theirs near it own borders))) If you aggro the bear - it will bite, even if it is wounded and weackened. That is simple.
Maybe Russians can start producing something useful and create state in which people would want to live, and not use energy resources as weapon in winter, so their neighbors wouldn't try to flee from their "friendship". Then, it would be US that would have to invade Canada for wanting to join Russian single market:p
P.S. Maybe it was better for Stalin to stop soviet armies at border in 1944 saving hundreds of thousands soviet soldiers and leave all Europe under Reich boots with it death camps, holocost and other pleasures of nazi regime.
Absolutely. In fact, stopping at Russian SSR would have been even better.
 
  • 8
  • 7
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Col.Klink

First Lieutenant
17 Badges
May 6, 2019
245
205
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Lead and Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
USSR's constitution was bullshit, the state lived by the will of Bolshevik and later Communist party, and people who disliked any aspect, were dealt by NKVD/KGB.
For example 17th Congress of Bolsheviks party, if you know what I mean.

Yes, because Britain, Sweden, Spain, Portugal are not Europe. And obviously, a proportional to population part of wermacht or force invading USSR was Polish, French, Czech, Serbian, and Greek.

If you want to lie, at least put some effort into it.

Refusal to give up territory is not a reason for war, in fact, the entire proposal was just a ride, so people like you could claim that Soviets didn't just attack Finland.

Yes, yes, any place Russian soldier died in, is rightful Russian soil, and neither Russian soldier nor leadership ever asked if locals ever wanted or needed that lifetime, irreparable debt that Russians just put on them, and demand payment, forever.

Of course. Any country that Russia dislikes, it can invade, for any reason.

As for Ukraine, between Yanukovich fleeing on 21 February,
Organization of public meetings started on February 22, and Russian troops seizing Crimean legislation on 27th of February, obviously vast, immeasurable quantities of Russian speakers had gotten discriminated.
Again, at least the "sudden" rapid desire of cessation is more believable. But in practice, Russian just seized what it could, because it wanted. The rest is bullshit.

As for Cuban crisis, well, USSR had only invaded South Korea at that point, after WW2, and threatened to invade Turkey, which is why it got into NATO. Nobody forced USSR to threaten Turkey.

Maybe Russians can start producing something useful and create state in which people would want to live, and not use energy resources as weapon in winter, so their neighbors wouldn't try to flee from their "friendship". Then, it would be US that would have to invade Canada for wanting to join Russian single market:p

Absolutely. In fact, stopping at Russian SSR would have been even better.


Yeah... we saw in 1991 what happened to the ussr when states were given the freedom to choose between staying and leaving... and routinely we saw events like 68 when states tried to act in an independent manner before that
I agree the idea that the constitution was honored is bullshit. Empty promises like socialism itself.

The ussr is immeasurably fascinating and tragic at the same time. Its goal was still to spread the "world revolution" but Stalin had long since realized that a society with no form of identity whatsoever (a classless society ) is a batshit crazy fantasy. So the ussr created the illusion of "independent but cooperating" states. Instead of abolishing identity, national identity became the bedrock for these states. Some like Romania moreso than others (the Romanian "palace of the people " is supposedly built with only Romanian made materials.)

I really like in game the ussr is given the advantage of easily puppeting states. Thats how they managed this. The terror controls the party leaders of these states and the states control the people. The states are in effect a practice of Mussolini's fascism but the communist party ruled over it making it "international" socialism even as the nationalism remained. What makes this REALLY fascinating is that all socialists have a goal of auturky or self sufficiency. Italy and Germany sought to achieve this by directly conquering and managing the resources they needed. The soviet method is more akin to Japan creating manchukuo or the Uk creating the british raj, including efforts to force the economies to be inter dependent. all the while pretending that this is not in fact naked imperialism.


Really talking about this has me convinced that the soviet union should be the focus of the next dlc. Its just too complex and fascinating to pass up!

On a off topic note: the Ukrainian issue mentioned is a complex disappointing knot. Ukraine is a prize, a real gem. When the soviet union collapses because people were actually given a choice part of the fallout was the usa forced Russia to accept an independent Ukraine, greatly crippling Russia. To top it off Crimea was stripped from them, a prize they fought over for like 300-400 years because it is simply so valuable.

For 20 years ukraine languished as an independent fence sitting state. It desperately needed help to reform and grow to its potential, which is immense but it sat on the fence for fear of being a target. Well in 2014 they finally broke, stepped down off that fence to the Russian side begging for help, which they were to receive. Then a short while later a coup conveniently happened ousting the pro russia government and installing one patently dedicated to joining Europe and nato. Such a turn of events is VERY convenient.

Russia really needs Ukraine, it needs access to the its immense natural resources ect. So in this scenario they had one choice left, arm the separatists in the country just like Poland armed the chechnyans years earlier (Poland doing so out of the interest of keeping Russia weak.)

Essentially everything ukraine feared would happen did happen. They stepped down off that fence and now they are being torn to pieces by hungry wolves...
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

-=Cheburashka=-

Private
Nov 18, 2019
21
33
USSR's constitution was bullshit, the state lived by the will of Bolshevik and later Communist party, and people who disliked any aspect, were dealt by NKVD/KGB.
For example 17th Congress of Bolsheviks party, if you know what I mean.

Yes, because Britain, Sweden, Spain, Portugal are not Europe. And obviously, a proportional to population part of wermacht or force invading USSR was Polish, French, Czech, Serbian, and Greek.

If you want to lie, at least put some effort into it.

Refusal to give up territory is not a reason for war, in fact, the entire proposal was just a ride, so people like you could claim that Soviets didn't just attack Finland.

Yes, yes, any place Russian soldier died in, is rightful Russian soil, and neither Russian soldier nor leadership ever asked if locals ever wanted or needed that lifetime, irreparable debt that Russians just put on them, and demand payment, forever.

Of course. Any country that Russia dislikes, it can invade, for any reason.

As for Ukraine, between Yanukovich fleeing on 21 February,
Organization of public meetings started on February 22, and Russian troops seizing Crimean legislation on 27th of February, obviously vast, immeasurable quantities of Russian speakers had gotten discriminated.
Again, at least the "sudden" rapid desire of cessation is more believable. But in practice, Russian just seized what it could, because it wanted. The rest is bullshit.

As for Cuban crisis, well, USSR had only invaded South Korea at that point, after WW2, and threatened to invade Turkey, which is why it got into NATO. Nobody forced USSR to threaten Turkey.

Maybe Russians can start producing something useful and create state in which people would want to live, and not use energy resources as weapon in winter, so their neighbors wouldn't try to flee from their "friendship". Then, it would be US that would have to invade Canada for wanting to join Russian single market:p

Absolutely. In fact, stopping at Russian SSR would have been even better.

1. Britain, Sweden, Spain, Portugal

Britain never considered itself as "Europe", even now. Thanks for Britain happened Munich agreement.
Sweden selled chromium and other materials for Hitler armored monsters and provide "volonteers".
Spain also traded with Hitler, even american companies continued to sell oil for Germany through it.
Portugal? They are so valuable military force)))

2. Refusal to give up territory is not a reason for war
It is, that territories was part of Russian Empire, not Finland. But some countries allowed to do it and some - didnt. Just loock how much "democratisation" and "protectiing of national interests" wars waged USA during 20-21t century. And all west approves them. So it cant judje others.

Of course. Any country that USA dislikes, it can invade, for any reason with all west approval. Russia cant even protect their people, opressed by decendants of nazi lapdogs in other countries.

3. As for Cuban crisis, well, USSR had only invaded South Korea at that point, after WW2, and threatened to invade Turkey, which is why it got into NATO. Nobody forced USSR to threaten Turkey.

So why USA was that outraged? Nobody forced them to threaten Cuba.

4. Yes, yes, any place Russian soldier died in, is rightful Russian soil, and neither Russian soldier nor leadership ever asked if locals ever wanted or needed that lifetime, irreparable debt that Russians just put on them, and demand payment, forever.

You must fight for your soil isnt it? Thats why finns even now respected by russians. As for "ethernal gratitude". As history shows, gratitude of Balkan countries for liberation from ottomans was short-lived.

5. As for Ukraine, between Yanukovich fleeing on 21 February,

Dont tell me about Ukraine. i knew it wery well. 28 years of anti-russian propaganda at schools, money for first and second "maidan" from west. Total collapse of industry, medical sphere after exit from SU, total corruption of state institutes. Even teachers and medics demand bribes. This is your so called "democracy" and "freedom"? "Freedom" from responsibility for criminals and oligarchy?

6. Maybe Russians can start producing something useful and create state in which people would want to live

Yep, and west allowes it. Stops from expansion of NATO, "color revolutions" and opposition support. Nice joke. West dont need strong Russia. All this began when Russia started to get up from it knees after SU collapse.

7. Absolutely. In fact, stopping at Russian SSR would have been even better.

Yep. It tells all - Europe loves uncle Adolf. I bet, when USA in 1945 will start to drop their nukes on european cities, it will love him more))) Because first atom bomb supposed to be dropped on Berlin.
 
Last edited:
  • 14
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

-=Cheburashka=-

Private
Nov 18, 2019
21
33
On a off topic note: the Ukrainian issue mentioned is a complex disappointing knot. Ukraine is a prize, a real gem. When the soviet union collapses because people were actually given a choice part of the fallout was the usa forced Russia to accept an independent Ukraine, greatly crippling Russia. To top it off Crimea was stripped from them, a prize they fought over for like 300-400 years because it is simply so valuable.

For 20 years ukraine languished as an independent fence sitting state. It desperately needed help to reform and grow to its potential, which is immense but it sat on the fence for fear of being a target. Well in 2014 they finally broke, stepped down off that fence to the Russian side begging for help, which they were to receive. Then a short while later a coup conveniently happened ousting the pro russia government and installing one patently dedicated to joining Europe and nato. Such a turn of events is VERY convenient.

Russia really needs Ukraine, it needs access to the its immense natural resources ect. So in this scenario they had one choice left, arm the separatists in the country just like Poland armed the chechnyans years earlier (Poland doing so out of the interest of keeping Russia weak.)

Essentially everything ukraine feared would happen did happen. They stepped down off that fence and now they are being torn to pieces by hungry wolves...

Nice joke pal. During SU final years Soviet Ukraine ("occupied " by Soviet Russia, he, he) was one of the first economics of Europe, outmatching even China, with 52 million population and it was groving, it had largest planes in world, rockets that could fly to orbit, giant trade navy. Now it is on the level of poorest african countries with 40 million population and demografical crisis. Why? Because west dont need their goods, nobody tells it to ukranian people in 1991. They told that Ukraine feeds Lennigrad and Moskow, that "they robbing you,". And now what, after two decades? St. Petersburg and Moskow stands still without "feeding", but ukrainian Industrial giants, that worked for entire Union, is dust and lies in ruins now. Millions of people lost their jobs and became cheap worckforce in west european countries, brilliant scientists and engineers where forsed to sell underpants on the markets to feed their families.. Total anti-russian propaganda at schools for 20 years, forced ukrainisation. Total corruption, oligarhy at power. Ukraine was terrible nightmare even before 2014. it no wonder that some former industrial regions with russian population majority starts to lose patience and tried to secede, finding someone who willing to help them.
 
Last edited:
  • 5
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Col.Klink

First Lieutenant
17 Badges
May 6, 2019
245
205
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Lead and Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Nice joke pal. During SU final years Soviet Ukraine ("occupied " by Soviet Russia, he, he) was one of the first economics of Europe, outmatching even China, with 52 million population and it was groving, it had largest planes in world, rockets that could fly to orbit, giant trade navy. Now it is on the level of poorest african countries with 40 million population and demografical crisis. Why? Because west dont need their goods, nobody tells it to ukranian people in 1991. They told that Ukraine feeds Lennigrad and Moskow, that "they robbing you,". And now what, after two decades? St. Petersburg and Moskow stands still without "feeding", but ukrainian Industrial giants, that worked for entire Union, is dust and lies in ruins now. Millions of people lost their jobs and became cheap worckforce in west european countries, brilliant scientists and engineers where forsed to sell underpants on the markets to feed their families.. Total anti-russian propaganda at schools for 20 years, forced ukrainisation. Total corruption, oligarhy at power. Ukraine was terrible nightmare even before 2014. it no wonder that some former industrial regions with russian population majority starts to lose patience and tried to secede, finding someone who willing to help them.

Several things can be true at the same time:

1) Russia is the most powerful wealthy player in that region. This is proven by the fact that Ukraine turned to Russia for help not the other way around.

2) Ukraine is factually the greatest agricultural zone in the world outside of the United States.

In 1941 Germany invades the Soviet Union with the express purpose of taking Ukraine and Azerbaijan. Those were the targets of the invasion. In 1991 the USA made a key point of stripping Ukraine from the Russian federation. The phone call is leaked and actually quite pathetic where the head of the Russian federation basically was begging ours to relent. One line was "Crimea has always been part of Russia!" In truth Russia's capitol at one point was Kiev. Ukrainian and Russian may be two different but heavily related languages, but Ukraine and Russia share a tight history.

The fact that Ukraine is important to Russia is proven by the post 2014 crisis in the country. Ukraine was not in a good situation and as I said, it *NEEDED* help. So it had a choice between a USA whose interest in world affairs is tbh waning, so it may not likely be a long term partner or Russia. This is added to the fact that Russia simply cannot afford Ukraine to turn against it. The threat of Russian separatists was a good one. So Ukraine climbed down off the fence and sided with Russia, risking being swallowed whole for the afore mentioned reasons. A coup happens threatening to turn Ukraine against Russia, turn it into a hostile actor.

The proof of how much Russia needs Ukraine is the fact that Russia armed all those people to wage an insurgency to trap the country in a low boiling war, but didn't do enough to topple the Ukrainian government. If this was *REALLY* about the Russian speakers Russia would have made a point of inviting them as refugees, but it didn't. Stalin planted those people there as a power base (straight out of Machiavelli) and Putin played that card.

Finally a third thing is true:

3) By all the numbers the Russian Federation is on it's deathbed. It has a few years of offensive power left and then the *REAL* dark times will be upon it. So the Russian Federation needs to get all of its affairs in order as soon as friggin possible. Belarus is already under their thumb, but they simply cannot afford Ukraine to be against them when they are staring down a few decades of abject weakness (if the Russian Federation is able to keep itself together through that....)
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Col.Klink

First Lieutenant
17 Badges
May 6, 2019
245
205
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Lead and Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
BTW I want to add that I don't say any of these things with a single ounce of malice or cruelty. What has been done to Ukraine honestly since 1991, and especially since 2014 is just disgusting. It is however like the british and french colonial activities. They did what they did to secure resources in a hostile competitive world, not because they were dicks. It also saddens me deeply when I learn in my studies how grim of a future the Russian Federation has.

I find that I greatly enjoy what I know of post soviet Russian culture. I find the language pleasing tho I'm not good at it. And I really wish one day to see the museums of st Petersburg or actually get to hunt in the vast Central Asian forests. There is something about Russia that I think shares an aspect of the American soul. It must be that so much of Russia is wild and un tamed I dunno what it is. So hearing it has grim future prospects really saddens me...
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Sighfer

Second Lieutenant
93 Badges
Mar 24, 2016
168
422
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
So yeah, the next DLC will be definitely centered around Italy.
Paradox will delay Communist uprising at the studio for as long as it can.
Perhaps an additional row of focuses for Spain, so it doesn't just stop in 1942, but definitely a rework of Balkans, for Benny's Roman Empire LARPing. For one, Yugoslavia. Legitimacy isn't going to be just set dressing, drastic change can happen like communists supplanting Chetniks, and even rival collaborationist governments can be set up, something for future Soviet and post-war Poland. Two, Greece, and its war with Italy. Three, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey set up with reworks/new focus trees for future Soviet Navy silliness with Montreux Convention. Four, Albania for bunker memes.

And the DLC after that will be the Soviet one, with Poland rework, focus trees for all Scandinavian and Baltic countries, and Naval rework. Because the Winter War was such a disaster, any Soviet player will try to do well, and Sweden would behave very differently with USSR sitting on its borders... watching it appease Nazis. Maybe a Mongolia focus tree for Choibalsan's dreams for Pan-Mongolia, and starting the Sino-Soviet split a decade earlier. With an addition of Khalkhin Gol being technically started between Mongolia and Manchukuo, and then being taken over by Soviet Union and Japan. I don't know about Iran and Iraq getting focus trees, since they actually were involved in WW2, and securing their oil was definitely a priority as was kicking their ass.

Those are my predictions for the two DLCs. I doubt Paradox will go for "Design Company" rework, and instead will just opt for production bonus spirits. But in reality, setting up tank production is hard. Really hard. So is designing good tanks. That goes twice for ships. It's only the Big 8 that actually had tanks that can be described as decent, and the eighth isn't China, it's Austro-Hungary, which Czechoslovakia inherited 70% of industry of. I would propose replacing that entire row with the status of your industry for planes, ships, tanks, artillery, motor vehicles and small arms. Each one giving bonuses or penalties to research, production, reliability, etc. based on how advanced they are, with opportunity to upgrade taking substantial amount of time, with some help from Industry leaders or allies. American and Soviet tank production is very streamlined, British and German... is not. British ship and airplane production is excellent, German... is not. Design companies would be inserted into tech-trees at the start, and giving substantially larger bonuses, with base equipment being nerfed to offset this. So being a minor, it's better to license, because domestic production is already hard, but research won't even give you any better equipment.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Krey_Lollipop

First Lieutenant
83 Badges
Aug 10, 2016
230
455
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
I see a lot of people say things like "you can't remake the Soviets without Finland" or "Italy needs to be bundled with Greece". I don't know personally. France, Germany and the Netherlands have all been reworked, but where is Belgium? Austria is another example of a country which seemingly missed its train.

It is cool when countries interact with one another in a meaningful way, but to be honest that doesn't happen very often as is. This isn't a big grievance though, as a well designed independent country works fine in most cases. In fact I'd go as far as saying that independent is better, because it decreases the risk of the game breaking due to unintended events.
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:

blahmaster6k

Bob Semple Tanker
38 Badges
Feb 8, 2018
2.304
6.311
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
2. Finns refused peaceful land changing. You see, Stalin dont demand land from Finland, he offer them a compensation.
Donald Trump really wanted to buy Greenland from Denmark a few months ago, Denmark refused despite being offered a ton of money. Does this mean that 2020 USA has cassus belli on Denmark? I think not. Refusal to sell territory along with the citizens who live in said territory is never justification for war. The only legitimate justification for war is defense against atrocities committed by another nation.

Russia must have been really scared of those warmongering Finns with their massive artillery budget 30km away from Leningrad /s. Finland only allied with the Nazis after the Winter War because Germany offered to give them their own land back, not out of a desire to be like Germany.
 
  • 10
  • 7
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Sighfer

Second Lieutenant
93 Badges
Mar 24, 2016
168
422
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
Finland only allied with the Nazis after the Winter War because Germany offered to give them their own land back, not out of a desire to be like Germany.
Except for the part where they literally imitated The March on Rome, and tried to coup the government in 1932 to put Mannerheim as the dictator. Which failed, and those involved got a slap on the wrist, while communist and socialist parties were banned. And the part where they wanted Germany's help to break off from Soviet Union's sphere of influence before and during their civil war.



Yup, Finland sure looks just fine. A bunch of stand up guys. The kind you want 32km away from a major city with a major port of yours. And cooperate with Estonia to blockade you.

 
  • 7
  • 2
Reactions:

Crecer13

Captain
Mar 15, 2019
390
579
Donald Trump really wanted to buy Greenland from Denmark a few months ago, Denmark refused despite being offered a ton of money. Does this mean that 2020 USA has cassus belli on Denmark? I think not. Refusal to sell territory along with the citizens who live in said territory is never justification for war. The only legitimate justification for war is defense against atrocities committed by another nation.

Russia must have been really scared of those warmongering Finns with their massive artillery budget 30km away from Leningrad /s. Finland only allied with the Nazis after the Winter War because Germany offered to give them their own land back, not out of a desire to be like Germany.
Of course, the Soviets feared the Finns. After all, the Finns started the Soviet-Finnish war of 1919-1921, with the goal of capturing Karelia at the creation of Great Finland, the Finns also planned to capture Petrograd (at that time it had not yet been renamed Leningrad). And they called it all the harmless word "tribal wars." Add to this the above that Finland worked directly with Germany + plans for Greater Finland. I would also be worried about the dangerous situation of Leningrad.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Alpha Bravo 77

Private
10 Badges
May 5, 2020
19
38
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
If next DLC will be focused around Italy for me it will have to contain:
1) Focus tree with the possibility of the civil war (in case of Allied invasion of Italy and the fall of Mussolini): Southern Kingdom with Allies vs Social Repubblic (fascist) with the Axis.
2) Add more generals.
3) Add the Italian Territory of Tientsin, China (near Shangai). Over there was stationed a marine regiment and a naval Command. It could open a new scenario in far east for Axis...
4) Split aerial region of Egypt in two. Now is too large.
5) Add special operations like naval raid of Alexandria when 6 italian frogsmen from "X Flottiglia MAS" sank 2 battleships and a tanker.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

ramius3443

Byzantium First, Encyclical Second
99 Badges
Dec 20, 2012
1.081
3.947
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
I see a lot of people say things like "you can't remake the Soviets without Finland" or "Italy needs to be bundled with Greece". I don't know personally. France, Germany and the Netherlands have all been reworked, but where is Belgium? Austria is another example of a country which seemingly missed its train.

It is cool when countries interact with one another in a meaningful way, but to be honest that doesn't happen very often as is. This isn't a big grievance though, as a well designed independent country works fine in most cases. In fact I'd go as far as saying that independent is better, because it decreases the risk of the game breaking due to unintended events.
Agree as far as Greece goes, but Finland and Turkey are just important and/or big enough..... they are exactly the sort of countries PDX would give a focus tree to.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Col.Klink

First Lieutenant
17 Badges
May 6, 2019
245
205
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Lead and Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Agree as far as Greece goes, but Finland and Turkey are just important and/or big enough..... they are exactly the sort of countries PDX would give a focus tree to.

Well they did give Manchukuo a focus tree all of its own making it one of the more interesting countries to play in the game so.... Finland, Turkey and Greece definitely aren't off the table.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

brokystoka1311

Corporal
20 Badges
Dec 28, 2017
27
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
I've had a hard time deciding which major is most deserving of the next overhaul. I can think of strong balance and historical reasons why either should get a new focus tree treatment first. Now that the Devs have started work on the next big expansion, I'd be curious to hear what people think will get prioritised (and most importantly, why)

Personally I'm leaning towards an Italy revamp, but I'm afraid my personal preferences are screwing with my judgment :p
(side note: maybe you think we're all wrong and the next expansion is a massive overhaul of Austria/Albania/Tuva! I don't want to assume it's just these two so by all means pitch your out of the park ideas)
My personal opinion is that they are going to revamp USSR, do the revamp of politics simultaneously (Trotskyism and Stalinsim being the two types of Communism and all), maybe do something with the weather mechanics and maybe (not probable though) do something with the doctrines and land warfare. Of course they will and revamp the Polish focus tree if they do the Soviets. Maybe, just maybe they'll add the Baltic States.
They could probably do both in the same DLC just like they did with Germany and Japan or UK and US.
Haven't thought of that, that's an interesting proposition but I doubt it, except redoing the politics of the game ITA and SOV don't have that much in common and PDX likes doing thematically connected DLCs.
Was disappointed a bit when they didn't do Italy in LaR
 

PurpulaPhoenixum53

Lt. General
53 Badges
Oct 8, 2016
1.697
2.743
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I feel like if they did them together it would focus on the political aspect, but if they were seperate the USSR's would focus on warfare, while Italy's focuses on diplomacy