Italy Map a little "silly"

[unmerged(15350)]

Putting the Anzio province next to Naples is a bit "silly"; assuming the designers want semi-historical options? An invasion in Anzio isn't very historical if it isn't "behind the lines" but is instead "at the front"? How can it be a "self supporting POW camp" if it is adjacent to the lines?

The new map seems to have a few provinces added for flavor? Anzio, Dunquerque?, etc? But whoever designed the map didn't actually take game play or history into designing the map?

Also, why does EVERY coastal province have a port? If that is intended, then just remove the port symbol from the map, and define every coastal as having a port?

 

[Josip]

The new map seems to have a few provinces added for flavor? Anzio, Dunquerque?, etc? But whoever designed the map didn't actually take game play or history into designing the map?

Also, why does EVERY coastal province have a port? If that is intended, then just remove the port symbol from the map, and define every coastal as having a port?

I also do have to agree with this... People would think that the map in the sequel would change a bit more... I also think that the new provinces are here just for cosmetic reasons, but no real changes have taken place...

And again we have the same story as EUII, just a few polished up provinces, some new features added, but thats that...
And to be honest, I don't like the sound of it...

 

[feanor73]

And again we have the same story as EUII, just a few polished up provinces, some new features added, but thats that...
And to be honest, I don't like the sound of it...

I don't think it's a good example : EU2 added a LOT of things to EU1, and much improved gameplay.

Actually if Hoi2 adds as many things to Hoi1, a lot of people on this forum will be happy.

 

[unmerged(31623)]

Putting the Anzio province next to Naples is a bit "silly"; assuming the designers want semi-historical options? An invasion in Anzio isn't very historical if it isn't "behind the lines" but is instead "at the front"? How can it be a "self supporting POW camp" if it is adjacent to the lines?

The new map seems to have a few provinces added for flavor? Anzio, Dunquerque?, etc? But whoever designed the map didn't actually take game play or history into designing the map?

Also, why does EVERY coastal province have a port? If that is intended, then just remove the port symbol from the map, and define every coastal as having a port?

While Anzio does seem to be in the wrong spot for what it's put there for (to simulate an Allied invasion), provinces like Dunkurque are not there just for flavor, but they played an important part in the war. Dunkurque is not some small out of the way port, it's the 3rd largest in France, and it's capture would've gone a long way to helping with the Allied supply problems. As it happened, the city never fell until May 10th, 1945. Calais should've definitely been in HOI1 and seperate from Lille, and I agree with putting Le Havre in.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Also, why does EVERY coastal province have a port? If that is intended, then just remove the port symbol from the map, and define every coastal as having a port?

If you look closely, you'll notice that some port icons are different than others. I'm not 100% certain what that means, but I'm fairly certain there will be differences between coastal provinces in terms of ports.

 

[unmerged(15350)]

While Anzio does seem to be in the wrong spot for what it's put there for (to simulate an Allied invasion), provinces like Dunkurque are not there just for flavor, but they played an important part in the war. Dunkurque is not some small out of the way port, it's the 3rd largest in France, and it's capture would've gone a long way to helping with the Allied supply problems. As it happened, the city never fell until May 10th, 1945. Calais should've definitely been in HOI1 and seperate from Lille, and I agree with putting Le Havre in.

But those provinces aren't "special" in HOI; unless they are adding a lot of unseen complexity. Example: there are no differences in port size, Naples and Dunquerque aren't any different than some tiny port on the coast of Africa.

Adding a province named Dunquerque effects the game based on its connectivity to other provinces; in HOI1 that province was named Lille; it has now been split in two. Having a second province effects the game play in various ways, but just having a second province with a special historical name doesn't do anything special.

Personally, I think they need LOTS MORE provinces, but that will never happen. Based on the divisional scale of the game, they need at least four times as many provinces; i.e. provinces need to be about 1/2 the current distance across, therefore 4x are needed. Or they should change the game to corps/armies, but that won't happen either; they have boxed their design in.

If they are trying to get any kind of "flow" and "manueuver" they need lots more provinces (or hexes); otherwise it is WW1 with fancy names.

 

[Pkunzipper]

Personally, I think they need LOTS MORE provinces, but that will never happen. Based on the divisional scale of the game, they need at least four times as many provinces; i.e. provinces need to be about 1/2 the current distance across, therefore 4x are needed. Or they should change the game to corps/armies, but that won't happen either; they have boxed their design in.

Then HOI2 would become a wargame with "hex"....!
I'd wait to see if all those new provinces really doesn't affect gameplay, before criticize it...

 

[unmerged(15350)]

Then HOI2 would become a wargame with "hex"....!
I'd wait to see if all those new provinces really doesn't affect gameplay, before criticize it...

I don't have to wait. A few more provinces are unlikely to have a major effect on game play. Other changes might, but a few more provinces won't. As an example (from someone else); as Finland you can't surround and destroy Soviet divisions (as happened historically), there just aren't the provinces to do it, you would need 2-3 times as many provinces between Leningrad and Helsinki; which is 4-9 times as many total provinces.

It is an issue of density. If 20-30+ divisions are getting piled up in provinces, it isn't a WW2 game of manueaver, it is trench warfare.

Once you have that many provinces, you might as well have hexes (or squares).

 

[unmerged(34422)]

The game has not been released yet, sheesh.

What you're looking at is just BETA.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

I don't have to wait.

Are you beta?

A few more provinces are unlikely to have a major effect on game play. Other changes might, but a few more provinces won't.
(...)
Once you have that many provinces, you might as well have hexes (or squares).

Yes, provinces are the most important change...

Steve, I don't want to do Paradox PR, but this game is a tad more then "HoI with few more provinces". Wait and see.

PS. I really don't get this "hexer fixation"... It works with some titles, it doesn't work with others. In my personal opinion, hexes are only useful with turn-based games. HoI was real-time though...

 

[Darkrenown]

If they are trying to get any kind of "flow" and "manueuver" they need lots more provinces (or hexes); otherwise it is WW1 with fancy names.

You're confusing the scale of the game. This is Grand strategy, you handle running the country and overall direction while your generals handle battles.

 

[Bandit109]

Are you beta?

I think he's just a flammer as what other point does this thread serve then to bash on the HOI2 map?

It may still be in beta but I don't think they're going to restructure the entire map now. If you wanted this to happen, maybe you should have said something when the first Alpha screenshot came out

 

[unmerged(19915)]

If you look closely, you'll notice that some port icons are different than others. I'm not 100% certain what that means, but I'm fairly certain there will be differences between coastal provinces in terms of ports.

The black liney looking thing on some ports is also on provinces without a coast, which leads me to believe that it is in fact an AAA emplacement. Previous screenshots have elicited the same port queries and the concensus was that they added ports to every possible coastal province, and the inapproporiate ones would be removed before release.

 

[Gwalcmai]

On the ITaly screenshot, look at Venice and La Spezia (I think it's those two. Up north). Those two port icons are much larger than all the others. One is blue, which should denote the presence of ships, the other like the others, but larger. I don't know what the size means, but maybe it's supposed to represent different port capacities?

Has this been answered in the screenshot thread?

 

[von Streusser]

On the ITaly screenshot, look at Venice and La Spezia (I think it's those two. Up north). Those two port icons are much larger than all the others. One is blue, which should denote the presence of ships, the other like the others, but larger. I don't know what the size means, but maybe it's supposed to represent different port capacities?

Wise, this one is.

 

[Yaiko]

Putting the Anzio province next to Naples is a bit "silly"; assuming the designers want semi-historical options? An invasion in Anzio isn't very historical if it isn't "behind the lines" but is instead "at the front"? How can it be a "self supporting POW camp" if it is adjacent to the lines?

The new map seems to have a few provinces added for flavor? Anzio, Dunquerque?, etc? But whoever designed the map didn't actually take game play or history into designing the map?

So on what you're saying the HoI Italy map was better? I was quite thankful they added in enough provinces as they did. And this is 'Grand Strategy'. If a landing at Anzio did take place and Naples was yours as allied, the battle being fought to control the 'Anzio' area would most likely represent the full battle for the region, which would include flanking the German line and getting through to Naples.

I mean, what do you want, really? Would you prefer Anzio to be left out? and turnn Italy to having fewer provinces as in HoI? I don't think you're really thinking about this issue at all. Just because you have a world map and soldiers to command doesn't mean you're now gonna be able to control the little aspects of the battles.

Taking a major city like berlin still reguired strategy, but a strategy too small for HoI, same with this 'anzio' situation.

 

[Vulture]

Two words... GRAND STRATEGY... as opposed to a tactical sim.

 

[unmerged(16031)]

That's 8 words.


But I agree.

 

[Dawnfire]

Thank you for no hexes. No hexes for the love of the God. More provinces are good, regardless of what they are named or where they are. South America hopefully has dozens more than it had previously.

But, like my friend once said to me about hexes, a general did not say to his troops "capture hex 4a5 and 5b5, but to capture Paris and Antwerp. Hexes are cold and "uncool." They have no heart. Hate the hex.

 

[unmerged(30686)]

I agree - it's a grand strategy game and if Paradox have to make some compromises for playability, or other constraints thats all cool with me