Italy leaving the empire?

[thErgonomic]

You don't border Venice? Do you mean you aren't Austria? Well kinda difficult then. Use alliances to your advantage.

or force feed a member of your alliance, preferably a small vassal, make them go overextended, as long as you garrison the lands and crush their rebels you can get it swallowed.

This exactly what I've been complaining about. At the moment if the player isn't in the region the only way to prevent the Shadow Kingdom event is to force feed allies, since the AI Austria is completely clueless about the existence of the event. Or has anybody seen it acting on the event in the current patch?

 

[User29]

This exactly what I've been complaining about. At the moment if the player isn't in the region the only way to prevent the Shadow Kingdom event is to force feed allies, since the AI Austria is completely clueless about the existence of the event. Or has anybody seen it acting on the event in the current patch?

what paradox wants is active player involvement to stop it, be glad they didn't remove italy outright, that's the more historical option

 

[grommile]

This exactly what I've been complaining about. At the moment if the player isn't in the region the only way to prevent the Shadow Kingdom event is to force feed allies, since the AI Austria is completely clueless about the existence of the event.

I'm pretty sure the whole point of the thing is that the only way Italy is staying in the Empire is with direct human intervention, because honestly the last shreds of Imperial credibility in northern Italy evaporated when it became apparent that nobody was going to try to stop Gian Galeazzo Visconti's military adventures by armed force.

 

[thErgonomic]

what paradox wants is active player involvement to stop it, be glad they didn't remove italy outright, that's the more historical option

And that's what I'm complaining about. I dislike situations in game that are only possible through a Deus Ex Machina named the player. A player is told what is going to happen if it doesn't do something and the player might want to prevent it. If I were AI Austria I sure as hell would, but when you give the same situation to the AI it doesn't understand what is happening, unless you give it a incentive, a CB for example. Look what I'm after is that there should be a chance for the AI to prevent what is going, just like there is a 10 percent chance for Castille to choose a local talent in the Iberian Wedding event. It's not something that I want to see in every game, but I'd be really happy to see in some games.

 

[thErgonomic]

I'm pretty sure the whole point of the thing is that the only way Italy is staying in the Empire is with direct human intervention, because honestly the last shreds of Imperial credibility in northern Italy evaporated when it became apparent that nobody was going to try to stop Gian Galeazzo Visconti's military adventures by armed force.

I've known the whole time what the Dev Team's point is. It's just that I disagree with it completely.

 

[User29]

And that's what I'm complaining about. I dislike situations in game that are only possible through a Deus Ex Machina named the player. A player is told what is going to happen if it doesn't do something and the player might want to prevent it. If I were AI Austria I sure as hell would, but when you give the same situation to the AI it doesn't understand what is happening, unless you give it a incentive, a CB for example. Look what I'm after is that there should be a chance for the AI to prevent what is going, just like there is a 10 percent chance for Castille to choose a local talent in the Iberian Wedding event. It's not something that I want to see in every game, but I'd be really happy to see in some games.

It shouldn't be possible -at all- Italy was gone. the only way Italy was going to come back in is if a megalomaniac declared himself imperator and fully annexed the peninsula. Italy didn't listen or care about the HRE and the HRE didn't listen to or care about Italy. in 1444.

 

[Falc]

A key problem is how HRE membership is very much all or nothing...

There is no real method in-game to represent a situation where, yes, okay, the Emperor is still nominally the owner of these lands, but he hasn't set a foot in them for a while now and if he tried to impose the slightest bit of his power, he'd either get ignored or have a full-fledged rebellion on his hands.


The only thing we can really do is to have the Emperor keep a claim on any province that leaves through the event. Of course, this causes a major pain if 5 years later some other nation gets crowned Emperor...

 

[thErgonomic]

It shouldn't be possible -at all- Italy was gone. the only way Italy was going to come back in is if a megalomaniac declared himself imperator and fully annexed the peninsula. Italy didn't listen or care about the HRE and the HRE didn't listen to or care about Italy. in 1444.

That's debatable. I'd argue that the end of HRE influences on the area happened earliest at the start of the Italian Wars in 1494, but surely by the end of them by 1559.

 

[User29]

There is no real method in-game to represent a situation where, yes, okay, the Emperor is still nominally the owner of these lands, but he hasn't set a foot in them for a while now and if he tried to impose the slightest bit of his power, he'd either get ignored or have a full-fledged rebellion on his hands

This is what I'm trying to say, This happened exactly in the 12th century, Barbarossa couldn't even impose his rules, 300 years prior. Italy was all but nominally in the HRE.

 

[Agius]

Actualy in my Poland game Habusburgs first get rid of Bohemia (take 2 provinces and set Silesia free) almost killed Vince (they take HRE out of it, and rest gave to Hungary, islands was left for Ottos), and are fightin Papcy every 10-15 years. They are also allied with France and Burgundy Inhartiance fired. I will provide Screenshot of it in Monday, since I off for a weekend.

And ofc they let me in to HRE ;-)

 

[birincikalite]

This exactly what I've been complaining about. At the moment if the player isn't in the region the only way to prevent the Shadow Kingdom event is to force feed allies, since the AI Austria is completely clueless about the existence of the event. Or has anybody seen it acting on the event in the current patch?

Force feed wont work. You need to add HRE provinces.

 

[thErgonomic]

Actualy in my Poland game Habusburgs first get rid of Bohemia (take 2 provinces and set Silesia free) almost killed Vince (they take HRE out of it, and rest gave to Hungary, islands was left for Ottos), and are fightin Papcy every 10-15 years. They are also allied with France and Burgundy Inhartiance fired. I will provide Screenshot of it in Monday, since I off for a weekend.

And ofc they let me in to HRE ;-)

It's possible true, but it's just not probable. Post picks when you can.

Force feed wont work. You need to add HRE provinces.

Sorry forgot got about it for a moment. I've usually been saying that the only way to prevent it at the moment is to force feed Austria.

 

[jpd]

Well we still got a little AE problem though. Even if I didnt tech and spend all adm on coring those provinces while staying at very high OE all the time(with new system, coring takes way too long) , I'd also get a big coalition formed against me. At that point being able to win the war dowsnt even matter if I don't wanna lose emperorship.

I do not agree with this assessment.

In my current game as Austria, I've fought 4 wars in Italy before 1480. The first two yielded me two of the papal state provinces, and 3 of the continental ones from Venice. Cored them, and added them to the Empire. The third one knocked out Venice and Istria, and handed the remaining continental one to Milan (one of my allies). And then, in the 4th war, I took out the remaining 3 papal state provinces, cored them, and added them to the empire.

At no point was the AE anywhere near dangerous levels. Nor was the overextention. Coring of these provinces took about 33 months each, which I don't find exceptionally long. The malus of AE in the relationships was gone after only a few years with each of the european nations (princes and electors alike), and most relations stayed well in the +100 to +200 range. So no coalition against me. Most of the time, I had support from all electors except Brandenburg and Bohemia. At a minimum, I had the support of at least 3 of the electors at all times during this period.

Although, I should mention I made sure I had Milan, France and Hungary as allies before I kicked of the first or the wars. These three turn out to be exceptionally loyal allies, who not only helped me putting things in order in Italy, but also come to the rescue whenever I, as Emperor, need to teach a Prince (sometimes even an elector) that it's not nice to conquer a neighbor. Naturally, I've helped France fight it's wars too, although sometimes these came at extremely inconvenient times.

 

[User29]

Force feed wont work. You need to add HRE provinces.

is that so? I'm sorry I said otherwise, I was quite sure it wasn't like that., could still force feed vassals though as long as you integrate them in time

 

[birincikalite]

I do not agree with this assessment.

In my current game as Austria, I've fought 4 wars in Italy before 1480. The first two yielded me two of the papal state provinces, and 3 of the continental ones from Venice. Cored them, and added them to the Empire. The third one knocked out Venice and Istria, and handed the remaining continental one to Milan (one of my allies). And then, in the 4th war, I took out the remaining 3 papal state provinces, cored them, and added them to the empire.

At no point was the AE anywhere near dangerous levels. Nor was the overextention. Coring of these provinces took about 33 months each, which I don't find exceptionally long. The malus of AE in the relationships was gone after only a few years with each of the european nations (princes and electors alike), and most relations stayed well in the +100 to +200 range. So no coalition against me. Most of the time, I had support from all electors except Brandenburg and Bohemia. At a minimum, I had the support of at least 3 of the electors at all times during this period.

Although, I should mention I made sure I had Milan, France and Hungary as allies before I kicked of the first or the wars. These three turn out to be exceptionally loyal allies, who not only helped me putting things in order in Italy, but also come to the rescue whenever I, as Emperor, need to teach a Prince (sometimes even an elector) that it's not nice to conquer a neighbor. Naturally, I've helped France fight it's wars too, although sometimes these came at extremely inconvenient times.

Well yes. Mine was overstating the situation because CS was just relesed and I didnt know coalitions were rarer.

 

[User29]

Well yes. Mine was overstating the situation because CS was just relesed and I didnt know coalitions were rarer.

I don;t think AE was changed much if at all in the CS expansion, should be about the same as before.

 

[birincikalite]

I don;t think AE was changed much if at all in the CS expansion, should be about the same as before.

Coalitions form less frequently. To express ; I had no coalition against me as Austria with whole Europe having average 90 AE with me.

 

[User29]

Coalitions form less frequently. To express ; I had no coalition against me as Austria with whole Europe having average 90 AE with me.

I don't remember anything like that in the patch notes, but it's agood thing so you can't just smash them when they aren't ready to take you on

 

[birincikalite]

I don't remember anything like that in the patch notes, but it's agood thing so you can't just smash them when they aren't ready to take you on

They don't form if they can't defeat you

 

[grommile]

They don't form if they can't defeat you

Which has the interesting effect of making it easier for vigorous warmongers to prevent them forming (by trucecycling likely candidates).