This. It can't all be on the emperor because the AI will never be able to do everything. Without massive player intervention, the Italian states leave every time.
Italy leaving the empire?
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This. It can't all be on the emperor because the AI will never be able to do everything. Without massive player intervention, the Italian states leave every time.
Yeah because their won't be a change! Ohhhhhhhhhh!
...transubstantiation joke in bad taste
Most provinces in Italy had more inhabitants than that. In 1500, Lombardia+Cremona+Mantua+Brescia included more or less one and half million inhabitants; as for the cities alone, Venice had 102k, Milan had 100k, Bologna had 55k, Florence had 50k, Rome 55k, Naples 150k, Palermo 50k, Brescia 48k, Cremona 40k, Genova 70k,
EDIT: For reference, Paris had 200k, Constantinople 50k, just like London, Prague 30k, Wien 29k.
Which screws over anyone who doesn't start in Europe or doesn't want to spend the first 50 years of the game babysitting the AI. The AI needs a chance to be able to do it on their own. Right now, the non-player emperor is hopelessly unequipped in terms of AI and mechanics to handle it. Only the emperor adds provinces, but if the Austria does take those provinces in a relatively short time (especially Rome), they're not going to be emperor anymore and whoever's next will be up in north Germany and unable to do anything. Even the Iberian Wedding has a chance to not happen, but this event is virtually guaranteed.
Even player doesn't have a very viable option so I'll say this was intended as well.
If they let other countries add provinces to the HRE and added missions it would be better and not a forgone conclusion. As I said before, even the Iberian Wedding has a 10% chance of not happening. This is a region changing event and has far too high a probability of happening exclusively due to game mechanics. It should not happen some times.
I'm sorry, in what sense are you "screwed over" by Italy leaving the HRE?
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The Papal States has the ability to join the HRE if you play as them by getting 181 relations with Austria. I think the AI Pope should join the HRE(and add its provinces) if Austria manages to get relations that high. That way, you would only have to conquer Venice, which is much more reasonable, IMO.
If you plan on conquest and uniting the HRE it becomes several hundred development more expensive. Fewer countries in the HRE weakens the emperor bonuses. It screws people outside of Europe because they don't have a shot to stop it at all because it will never stop without player inference. Italy leaving the HRE is a big thing to have no way to stop. If it wasn't 100% chance due to mechanics or if the time limit was longer, it wouldn't be nearly much of an issue.
yes but... it was inevitable, I've been reading a lot of the regional history lately and Barbarossa essentially lost control of Italy and the HRE never had the same control as they did in the centuries prior, if anything the HRE should maybe start off without Northern Italy.
You should not be able to perfectly prevent Italy from leaving just because you don't want it to, It should be despairingly hard as in reality it was already far too late by 1444
Most sane persons here agree that we need a second way to add provinces to the empire besides outright conquest,coring, and manually adding them.
Either a way that involves war, forcefully adding teritorry to the empire (without actually having to destroy the nation and conquer the provicnes by urself), or some sort of diplomatic way, which should be difficult to achieve, but still be a reasonable way to expand the empire.
Currently the Emperor, and the Emperor ALONE is the only one who can broaden the borders of the empire, in a very unwieldy way, of having to conquer and add the provicnes by himself.
It should be in the Intrest of Electors to expand the Empire aswell. (I know they can add provinces ocne certain relations are met with the emperor in multipalyer, They never do it in singleplayer though.)
An Emperor who does a fantastic job in defending and maintaining as many members as possible, shouldnt only be able to enact reforms faster, he should also be able to expand the empire, slowly, but steadily.
Example: You crushed the Danish King in a fierce battle at the northern imperial borders, and now you want to expand the empire's borders by adding 1 or 2 provinces to it. Well. You can't. You can't because you are to far away to core it.
Either a way that involves war, forcefully adding teritorry to the empire (without actually having to destroy the nation and conquer the provicnes by urself), or some sort of diplomatic way, which should be difficult to achieve, but still be a reasonable way to expand the empire.
Currently the Emperor, and the Emperor ALONE is the only one who can broaden the borders of the empire, in a very unwieldy way, of having to conquer and add the provicnes by himself.
It should be in the Intrest of Electors to expand the Empire aswell. (I know they can add provinces ocne certain relations are met with the emperor in multipalyer, They never do it in singleplayer though.)
An Emperor who does a fantastic job in defending and maintaining as many members as possible, shouldnt only be able to enact reforms faster, he should also be able to expand the empire, slowly, but steadily.
Example: You crushed the Danish King in a fierce battle at the northern imperial borders, and now you want to expand the empire's borders by adding 1 or 2 provinces to it. Well. You can't. You can't because you are to far away to core it.
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The Empire only expanded by its members outright conquering areas on the Border, namely, Pommerania and the Northern Crusades. No other Growth occurred except against Pagan Slavs and even then minimally. It doesn't make sense for the empire to grow, even under the Emperor's thumb Hungary was never added to the Empire. That being said, it would be a fun game mechanic I just disagree with the notion that it's in the Elector's interest giving a sense that it's what they would've wanted, They didn't even care about Italy let alone expanding.
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The System of adding and removing provinces from the empire is already in the game, so the devs obviously had some thoughts behind that. Expanding the empire is also already ingame, it's just unwieldy. They should either improve on this system or remove it altogether, because at this state, its a system that is unfinished/ just doesn't feel right
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While it was a revelation that it's was not the possessive form of it, most of the "its vs it's" articles I leafed through in a quick google search treated it as a minor typo rather than a full-blown grammar mistake, since even knowing the rule, it is very easy to make it.
On the other hand, the difference between the plural and possessive forms of the word Empire, especially in a video game over a half-interested forum post, is far more significant.
1) makes sense, what did you expect?
2) Not really OP - Italy was a very rich region in those times, when compared with Germany and France, thus a unified Italy being a world-class power is only natural.
3) I can feel your pain brother.
This is pretty accurate, yes. It must be said that it was a two-ways relationship: the Emperor cared for Italy only for prestige, and - apart from Savoy - the rest was completely out of Imperial politics. In 1444, the HRE was already, de facto, the HREGN.
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I agree completely, and even though I think it might be fun to expand the empire, I think it would be more along the lines of reality to remove it, Either way, fleshed or removed, I would be happy with it
Yeah, I'm glad Wiz said Savoy might be able to stick around out of random chance, hope that gets put in the patch later this month
First, this isn't entirely true, historically good ol East Frisia joined the HRE of their own free will after game start.
The ironic problem is that being a HRE member is FAR too good. Human players jump through incredible hurdles to get a piece of the HRE bonus action, while if AI were made self-aware every nation in the game under a certain size would be spamming diplomats and maybe gifts and marriage offers at Austria in the hopes of joining too, nobody in their right mind would ever want to leave, Italian AI would even reject the shadow empire offer unless they had a good reason to not want the 35 prestige hit, such as holding a fragile PU. Instead, I assume for game balance and railroading, AIs don't join the empire, members don't make an effort to drag provinces in, and in general AI aren't even thinking about getting any reforms passed unless they're emperor, despite all the benefits early ones provide.
Perhaps, and forgive me for saying it, the problem is that being in the HRE is too much of a net positive. Perhaps there should be penalties. Maybe HRE members should be charged extra for coring HRE provinces or annexing another HRE member vassal. Maybe some of that manpower being thrown towards the emperor ought to come at the expense of their members. As it stands, the only reason you'd ever want to not join (if you can) or leave if in, is, government rank? I can't think of anything else. Maybe a little bit of penalties being thrown at members, specifically penalties that only members face and not non-members attacking/annexing in, would better help with this whole HRE situation. A little bit of adjustment and maybe, just maybe, the HRE would actually stop being an ideal place for anyone who wants to blob, since it would actually penalize its own members for blobbing off other members more than it penalizes anyone else from the outside.
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