To avoid all the maluses you have to cancel his vassalization. (There's a significant diprep penalty for holding the Papal States as a vassal if you're Catholic.)
Italy leaving the empire?
- Thread starter birincikalite
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Well we still got a little AE problem though. Even if I didnt tech and spend all adm on coring those provinces while staying at very high OE all the time(with new system, coring takes way too long) , I'd also get a big coalition formed against me. At that point being able to win the war dowsnt even matter if I don't wanna lose emperorship.
I wasn't talking about releasing the Papal States as a vassal, simply release him with the new mechanic. That way, you keep the rest of the provinces as well.
I took Venice & Dalmatia (or Istria, I don't remember) and Rome & Ancona within two years of each other (I was desperately trying to keep Italy in the HRE, I only realized that all of northern Italy, including the Papacy which I thought was excluded, had to be in the HRE about 15-20 years before 1490) without getting a coalition against me. Granted, I had Influence ideas, so I had -20% AE. AE is way more manageable in 1.12.
In my Palatinate game Switzerland left together with the Italian countries, but that could be due to their capital at the time.
Also Holland left but now the HRE territory is terrible, it has dutch provinces from the minors which didn't immediatly join the Netherlands, (brabant, Loon etc). On the other side there are random italian provinces still left over, and hungary which was briefly Austrian, now half ottoman. The HRE territory looks random and just illogical, there should be some more regulation here
I would post a picture but yesterday I encountered some crashbug
, might need a patch to fix
Also Holland left but now the HRE territory is terrible, it has dutch provinces from the minors which didn't immediatly join the Netherlands, (brabant, Loon etc). On the other side there are random italian provinces still left over, and hungary which was briefly Austrian, now half ottoman. The HRE territory looks random and just illogical, there should be some more regulation here
I would post a picture but yesterday I encountered some crashbug
, might need a patch to fix
I think Electors and Free Cities should probably stay, since they have more to gain than average princes.
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I completely agree with your decision to add in the 'shadow empire' event chain. Northern Italy has already been much cooler in my first playthrough because of this change. Also, it might give an AI HRE a chance to not have as many wars on its plate.
Great job!
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You can't. Just like real life. You can be a Catholic with the Statute though.
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A quick question that just happened in my game, Milan took Verona after beating Venetia.
If Milan isn't a vassal of a german HRE, that means i will have to make it work beacuse they will not make Verona part of the empire? or Milan now will make it part
If Milan isn't a vassal of a german HRE, that means i will have to make it work beacuse they will not make Verona part of the empire? or Milan now will make it part
I thought Verona was Imperial province already? At least in previous versions the whole Venetian mainland was "illegal imperial territory".
The event is a bit too penalizing. I like it in concept, and I certainly like it more than not having anything and would keep it over deleting it for sure, but it could really truly use a tweak or two.
Have the territory being controlled by or a vassal of HRE members be enough. Requiring it be added to the empire is absolutely absurd when said territory is generating AE which can hinder the ability to meet the requirements to add it. Having the territory as a vassal of a HRE member (opposite the IA penalty for members being vassals of an outsider) should suffice, for sure!
Remove the Venice proper requirement, if it exists as I think it does. Brescia, Verona, Treviso, Friuli (please forgive spelling errors) should be necessary - Venetia itself not. If it's already not on the list my apologies.
Add some sort of option for the occupation of Rome that allows this to work without nasty penalties. I realize the reason for the penalties and support them, but alternatives are needed or it conflicts too heavily with the shadow kingdom event. Perhaps the addition of a peace deal that is similar in cost to force-vassal, but without any AE, that force-members a nation INTO the HRE? Or, perhaps the option to release Rome that puts it into the empire, rather than just freeing it and in doing so failing the event? There could be a better idea I haven't thought of, but, there just has to be something feasible for bringing Rome into the HRE (a HRE goal for centuries and necessary for this event) without debilitating penalties for doing so.
Have the territory being controlled by or a vassal of HRE members be enough. Requiring it be added to the empire is absolutely absurd when said territory is generating AE which can hinder the ability to meet the requirements to add it. Having the territory as a vassal of a HRE member (opposite the IA penalty for members being vassals of an outsider) should suffice, for sure!
Remove the Venice proper requirement, if it exists as I think it does. Brescia, Verona, Treviso, Friuli (please forgive spelling errors) should be necessary - Venetia itself not. If it's already not on the list my apologies.
Add some sort of option for the occupation of Rome that allows this to work without nasty penalties. I realize the reason for the penalties and support them, but alternatives are needed or it conflicts too heavily with the shadow kingdom event. Perhaps the addition of a peace deal that is similar in cost to force-vassal, but without any AE, that force-members a nation INTO the HRE? Or, perhaps the option to release Rome that puts it into the empire, rather than just freeing it and in doing so failing the event? There could be a better idea I haven't thought of, but, there just has to be something feasible for bringing Rome into the HRE (a HRE goal for centuries and necessary for this event) without debilitating penalties for doing so.
Mechanic Proposal: Special Emperor Casus Belli called "Imperial Conquest". Upon winning the War of Imperial Conquest, the loosing Warleader's provinces will be automaticly added to the empire. Restricted to provinces already bordering existing HRE provinces by land or seazone.
+1 Authority gained for each province, There should be a limit of how many provinces you can add in a single war.
This allows The Emperor to expand the Holy Roman Empire, without the need to wipe out nations, core the provinces, and add them by himself, which is ridiculous.
+1 Authority gained for each province, There should be a limit of how many provinces you can add in a single war.
This allows The Emperor to expand the Holy Roman Empire, without the need to wipe out nations, core the provinces, and add them by himself, which is ridiculous.
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This would make the game of HRE too easy. I'd support this only if we got it through events due to countries leaving HRE. Right now that's just Italy, but I presume they will do something similar for Switzerland too.
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At the current gamestate we NEED a way to expand the empire without taking every goddamn single provinces by ourselves, coring, and adding them.
There is no way around that, the Emperor has already enough work to do to even keep the empire together, he cant be bothered sucking up huge amounts of AE and loosing monstrous amounts of admin just to hold it together AGAIN. Currently the smartest thing to do as Emperor is to just drop responseabilities and go full-ego mode, expanding inside HRE, and only allying electors to stay emperor, destroying the HRE
There is no way around that, the Emperor has already enough work to do to even keep the empire together, he cant be bothered sucking up huge amounts of AE and loosing monstrous amounts of admin just to hold it together AGAIN. Currently the smartest thing to do as Emperor is to just drop responseabilities and go full-ego mode, expanding inside HRE, and only allying electors to stay emperor, destroying the HRE
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Looking at the screenshot on the first page of the thread, it doesn't look like Venetia is a required province
You are correct, it's those damned Austrian ships throwing me off I guess.
I formed italy in my last game and noticed a few things.
1) very low AE. It was only when I fully annexed tuscany which had conquered siena that I had a coalition form. until then nobody cared. The auto leave from HRE is probably the cause for this, and I am not sure how I feel about it.
2) Italy is op. 2 end nodes to get trade from, massively rich provinces, fairly easy to control, etc. Just taking the required provinces for decision+ venetia puts you on par with france economy wise, and nearly there manpower wise.
3)It always hurt my soul to build a non light ship. Now its excruciating.
1) very low AE. It was only when I fully annexed tuscany which had conquered siena that I had a coalition form. until then nobody cared. The auto leave from HRE is probably the cause for this, and I am not sure how I feel about it.
2) Italy is op. 2 end nodes to get trade from, massively rich provinces, fairly easy to control, etc. Just taking the required provinces for decision+ venetia puts you on par with france economy wise, and nearly there manpower wise.
3)It always hurt my soul to build a non light ship. Now its excruciating.
Italy starts with enormously high average Development compared to the rest of europe. Most provinces in italy start with higher development than large Capital Cities like Paris, Wien and Constantinople. Wether this is historical or not, i dont care, it for sure isnt balanced though.