Italy 1933

[unmerged(44239)]

First of all, I am not looking for gamey suggestions, I just want some criticizm on my path so far.
My second DH game, first being Brazil which was mainly to see what the game is all about.

Bear with me on my decisions, they were made from a "Italy ready to take on Eqypt spring 1940".
The year is now 1938, and I am amazing troops next to Yugo.

- I started my Italy game by disbanding all navy I thought I would not be needing. This meant all Cruisers and all old (4 or less) destroyer/subs. I also sank all but 4 transports.
- Stopped all production, and started a string of factories.

- Reasearch:
1) Infantry, most on this page also Naval units for taking Gibraltar. I forgot about MOT, which sucks now. Should have done more here I think.
2) Artillery/Tanks, no armored cars which might be bad... I just hoped for 1-2 real tanks for Egypt conflict. But I realize this might be futile dream.
3) Air/Naval, Tacs/Navs destroyer and BB
4) Industry, everything apart from Nuc/Rockets and such.
5) Docktrines, BB/Des docktrines, Tacs/Nav and Infatry of course.

- Builds has focused on factories so far, and amazed 4 tacs which I want ready for Yugo war. I will begin Navs now, so I can be ready for UK 1940.

- Diplomacy/Intel:
1) Steal tecs as much as possible from Yugo/Greece and such. I just fear that this is nuts, as I am far ahead of them anyway???
2) Upgrade relations with Romania, so I can attack Yugo. Will France attack me though?

- War on Abbys. This might be gamey, but I prolonged the war, to get as MUCH experience as possible for my commanders. I selected specific commanders to lead attacks/defences at points where I knew action would be heavy.
One commando, leading 2 Mountaneers has gotten 3 extra traits and 3 levels of xp... He is; Commando, Jungle, Mountains, Offensive and Logistics expert. I want him to lead all major critical attacks, land on Gibraltar, land at Suez etc etc...


My worries...:

- Sacking navy... I did it to save ressources, and because I have NO intentions on fighting Royal Navy till 1941 anyway... I will send troops/supplies to Libya, and use Navs to harras him. When Gibraltar is taken I will step up my naval actions in the Med.
- Not attacking Yugo sooner...
- Not making MOT's already, and not having build up more army already
- No Navs, not even any started
- War with Yugo will throw me into a war with France, catapulting me further into war with UK.
- Not attacking Spain. I remember I used to do this as Italy in HoI(1), which put me in a very favorable position to control Gibraltar and perma bomb the British convoys in Atlantic.


Why are UK constantly intel attacking me??? Stealing blueprints etc... I have not done anything to them, should I just go offensive intel on them to?
So far they are causing our relations to drop due to their actions

 

[TK3600]

You can't amphibious land on Gibraltar, so yeah. Attack Yugoslavia should not cause WWII, if your belligerence were not too high in Abbysinnian War. Sacking your cruisers am is a fail. Ships takes years to build. Also, UK hates you for being Facist.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

You can't amphibious land on Gibraltar, so yeah. Attack Yugoslavia should not cause WWII, if your belligerence were not too high in Abbysinnian War. Sacking your cruisers am is a fail. Ships takes years to build. Also, UK hates you for being Facist.

Okay, so how do I grab Gibraltar?

I'm focused on DD/BB, so my CV's would have horrible docktrines anyway.

Damn the UK

 

[Stuka Ju87 D3]

1. Taking Gibraltar should be your top priority. It allows you the freedom to do whatever you want afterwards. Otherwise, Africa/M.East will remain a problem in the future. To do this, you need to ally with Spain/conquer Spain, since you can’t land on Gibraltar, and I doubt you’ll have the range+planes+paratroopers to air assault it.

2. Regardless whether you have Gibraltar, your next goal is Suez. You need to conquer Egypt fast, as the Brits will prioritize Egyptian defense. Use Abyssinia to tie up the Brits till you capture Egypt+Middle East.

3. From then on, it’s all up to you. If you’ve captured the Gibraltar, you can try conquering the UK. If not, you can concentrate on Africa. It’s big, but surprisingly easy to defend once it’s yours. Africa isn’t very wealthy in anything you need, but you’ll have nothing else to do until June 1941 if you don’t have the Gibraltar and are not going to try to get it.

4. Once 1941 hits, Germany will steamroll the Soviets (since this is 1933 scenario), and they’ll push south through the Caucuses. Make sure you have Persia at that point, and try to break into India as soon as you can, else you get stuck at the border province. The Germans will conquer what’s left of Africa and India for you.
At this point, if you still don’t have the Gibraltar, you’ll have a fun time in the Mediterranean, if the UK is still not conquered, spam Interceptors to hinder nuke runs on Germany and yourself.

IMHO, if it’s only 1938, just restart 1936, and then you may have a fun time trying to help Germany anyway you can vs. the Soviets (If Germany fails to win in 1941), while also being the chief target of the British and Americans.

P.S.: Unless you're willing to be gamey, and assuming you do NOT have Gibraltar, forget the Navy, it'll just waste your IC... just run a few DDs/SSs to distract the enemy so your transports can do their job.

P.P.S.: Don't disband ships; convert to convoys/escorts, but only if you really don't need them.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

I like the buildup to 1939, so really enjoying starting 1933

But will reload game from 1933, and prepare for "Opperation Iberia" so I can secure Gibraltar.

What would be needed to gear up for such an invasion?
I think Italy is in another league in regards to military, when facing Spain...

I could also make it a little less a-historical and simply attack Rep. Spain and "help" Nat. Spain win the war, keeping some land around Gibraltar so I can grab that later.


In regards to belligerence, would releasing Abbys, anexing Yugo and attacking rep. spain keep me safe from UK/France?
Or am I to greedy for my own good?

 

[Thegreatgeneral]

I would suggest you to conquer Malta as well, as it historically served as a port and air base for the English fleet in WW2. I'm from Taranto, and it has bombed by planes from Malta in 1940

 

[SpaceViking]

Why the BBs? I've had success making Italian CVs.

As for Gibraltar when the Spanish civil war starts don't intervene via the event (or don't JUST intervene) but actually send troops and when the war is done Spain will probably be your ally. Then taking Gibraltar is easy!

 

[TK3600]

Do not annex Abbysinnia, sue for peace. You must puppet it. You will get 30'ish divisons from assume military control. This is pretty historical, since Italy conaidered about it. Once at war with UK, delay them with Abbysinnian force. If UK reinforce the border, then make them go defensive. If UK ignore Abby border, attack them so UK must thin its line against you to defend. Worked for me.

 

[Stuka Ju87 D3]

I like the buildup to 1939, so really enjoying starting 1933

In regards to belligerence, would releasing Abbys, anexing Yugo and attacking rep. spain keep me safe from UK/France?
Or am I to greedy for my own good?

Don't worry about belligerence. You'll be at war with the Allies in 1940, or if you want to go for Roman Empire, earlier

What would be needed to gear up for such an invasion?
I think Italy is in another league in regards to military, when facing Spain...

I could also make it a little less a-historical and simply attack Rep. Spain and "help" Nat. Spain win the war, keeping some land around Gibraltar so I can grab that later.

Both are situational... generally speaking, you won't need to build up your forces to tackle Spain. 20-30 divisions + Navy + TAC support should be good enough. If you are at war with Rep. Spain and have good relations with Nat. Spain, IIRC you can try to ally with Nat. Spain. You+Nat Spain can conquer France in 1938 + UK later on, and once France is down, you can free up troops to finish a Roman Empire sans Britain reconquest (whatever is left in Balkans + Turkey (careful due to USSR border), Iraq+Levant+Egypt+Maghreb; if expansionist - Persia + Raj to outdo Alexander in the east).

P.S.: Get a few MOT/ARM divisions out (at least 1-2 for France) and consider going Mobility if you want Roman Empire reconquest - it'll make your life much easier (and more realistic vs. Defensive in this context).

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Thanks a lot for all the response
I restarted game last night, and took some advice, ignored some

Once again I disbanded some navy, but this time I kept more of it. Disbanded some of the really old models.
Guess you can regard it as "Roleplaying", as Mussolini envies UK and wants to build a navy/army to match it. So he don't want old ships floating around, he wants "high tech"!!!

I am now in 1937.
- Abbys is puppeted, did not get 30 divisions... maybe because I killed all his divisions? I have an event waiting for me, that gives me divisions, but it also cuts my str to 70% so holding back a few months on that.
- Attacked Rep Spain Nov 1936, and have taken the lower "belly" of Spain. Most importantly, I have the province next to Gibraltar.
- Did not consider allying myself with Nat. Spain, actually wanted to keep them neutral so it would be easier for me to defend against UK/US landings.
- Thought about CV's, and started drawing sketches of one but Mussolini saw it and asked for more guns to be put on it (ship with no guns???) and eventually it became a BB...
- Have 3 MOT's building, ready to be put to use in Egypt. This means I have a little less Factories being build, but no army no winning Egypt.

My plan is not, and has never been, to conquer all... I wanted to build a southern Axis power that could "match" Germany, and help them win Caucassus.
So Germany going ahistorical (no attacking Poland/France/Russia) will really ruin the game.


I played Germany to much in HoI(1), and the greatest variance in my games came from what my allies did. I perma-encircled Russia, and pushed them back, while landing in UK.
The UK AI had big trouble not defending against the landing.
Playing Russia/Ally means if you win, you are basically following history.
So tried Japan and broke my neck on micromanagment, all those navies/islands and on top of that you are trying to conquer China in rough/low infrastructure terrain, using infantry. One unit marched almost a full year only to be attacked on arrival and retreat back...
Tried Finland, and realized I'm not a strong enough strategist, because despite my struggles Russia slowly beat me back. Very slowly, but after loosing 3 provinces, I gave up.

Italy was my sweetspot. So many options... And I even found Africa much more "fun" to conquer than China. Beating the RN was never given, same as losing to it never meant defeat.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Forgot to add...

Undecided about Yugo. I want to attack it (they are Intel attacking me constantly, so pretty pissed at them anyway...), but also want to avoid creating to much disturbance in the events.
I fear that if I do to much ahistorical, Germany will act all strange and go pacifist and I will end up fighting the world alone

PS: Btw... the sprites of Nat. Spain shows tanks units moving around... do they already have tanks???

 

[TK3600]

Geeze, be nice to those African nations. No need to encircle them all!

I personally do not use the extra divison events. Very bad in the long term. Will not consider unless absolutely desperate. CV is better game wise, but those BB looks more cool and can roleplay. If you can't afford MOT early, late model calvary does magic in desert. No worry on attacking Yugo. You would not cause any trouble unless you invade Poland or join Allies.

 

[Stuka Ju87 D3]

Forgot to add...

Undecided about Yugo. I want to attack it (they are Intel attacking me constantly, so pretty pissed at them anyway...), but also want to avoid creating to much disturbance in the events.
I fear that if I do to much ahistorical, Germany will act all strange and go pacifist and I will end up fighting the world alone

PS: Btw... the sprites of Nat. Spain shows tanks units moving around... do they already have tanks???

RE: Nat Spain Tanks - The Spanish Civil War was a testing ground for the participating foreign powers. Those are German tanks the Spanish are using.

RE: Yugo - IIRC the events are flexible on Yugoslavia.

- Have 3 MOT's building, ready to be put to use in Egypt. This means I have a little less Factories being build, but no army no winning Egypt.

You can win Egypt without MOT. The issue is you have a higher chance of getting stuck without MOT, and if you get stuck you'll lose in the long run because Defensive doctrine is horrible and the AI can muster more troops than you can. Having a handful of MOTs makes sure you can exploit breakthroughs and prevents the AI from building unmanageably large armies on the front.

I have an event waiting for me, that gives me divisions, but it also cuts my str to 70% so holding back a few months on that.

IMHO wait on this until you can get good advice... I remember I didn't like the decision for some reason, but I don't remember what the implications were.

 

[TK3600]

RE: Nat Spain Tanks - The Spanish Civil War was a testing ground for the participating foreign powers. Those are German tanks the Spanish are using.

RE: Yugo - IIRC the events are flexible on Yugoslavia.



You can win Egypt without MOT. The issue is you have a higher chance of getting stuck without MOT, and if you get stuck you'll lose in the long run because Defensive doctrine is horrible and the AI can muster more troops than you can. Having a handful of MOTs makes sure you can exploit breakthroughs and prevents the AI from building unmanageably large armies on the front.



IMHO wait on this until you can get good advice... I remember I didn't like the decision for some reason, but I don't remember what the implications were.

Choosing this makes all infantry units permanently stuck on 70% STR, including any future units. You would pay 100% price for 70% the divison. This also makes them incredibly weak on offensive, and vulnerable to attrition. It feels more like the Italy that got rolled by UK, and less like the Roman Empire.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Choosing this makes all infantry units permanently stuck on 70% STR, including any future units. You would pay 100% price for 70% the divison. This also makes them incredibly weak on offensive, and vulnerable to attrition. It feels more like the Italy that got rolled by UK, and less like the Roman Empire.

Thank you!!!
That decision would be catastrophical for me to pick, with the plans I have in mind.

One thing I find in HoI series, is that while few divisions is a problem because you get spread out to thin and can't properly attack/encircle/defend in depth etc... you would often be better of with few strong/reliable units than many weak/easy to break units.

 

[makif130289]

Don't take Gibraltar. Fight a fair and bloody war in the Med to establish your naval superiority. Starving entire Royal Navy is just too easy.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Don't take Gibraltar. Fight a fair and bloody war in the Med to establish your naval superiority. Starving entire Royal Navy is just too easy.

I would love a fair and bloody war, but seems to me Italy vs. UK navy is unfair to begin with
I would need both much more focus on the Italian Navy (would def. need CV's then?), but also to be lucky with my engagements and not face UK stacks of doom.

Anyway, there is a reason why Suez was important, and I guess Spain was also someone Germany wanted to ally, to get better hold on the Med.

 

[makif130289]

I would love a fair and bloody war, but seems to me Italy vs. UK navy is unfair to begin with
I would need both much more focus on the Italian Navy (would def. need CV's then?), but also to be lucky with my engagements and not face UK stacks of doom.

Anyway, there is a reason why Suez was important, and I guess Spain was also someone Germany wanted to ally, to get better hold on the Med.

Not at all. Vanilla naval bombers are the queen of the sea, not aircraft carriers. And Sicily and Sardinia are natural "carriers" for your naval bombers. NAVs plus your BB fleets are more than enough to turn the Med into graveyard for Royal Navy. You wont meet a British CV everytime either, you will encounter many fleets led by BBs and CAs and that will be a huge fun.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Not at all. Vanilla naval bombers are the queen of the sea, not aircraft carriers. And Sicily and Sardinia are natural "carriers" for your naval bombers. NAVs plus your BB fleets are more than enough to turn the Med into graveyard for Royal Navy. You wont meet a British CV everytime either, you will encounter many fleets led by BBs and CAs and that will be a huge fun.

So your advice on fighting "fair" and bloody is to use the Nav's that a lot agree on are way stronger than they should be, and grinding down UK navy due to the AI being to stupid to not keep sailing his ships past that strange "Bermuda Zone" where all their ships mysteriously vanish?

Unless it's some actual plan where Italy reforms their navy to fight the UK, I consider taking Gibraltar/Suez and starve UK navy more fair than the above

 

[Pasha]

Oh man, the only benefit in puppeting Abyssinia is inheriting its +30 divisions. You should have just created IEA since they churn out Mountain Divisions for some welcome reason. Also, you'll be fine attacking Yugoslavia. But if your belligerence is too high then I'd hold out on attacking Greece until you're ready to fight the British. But I have successfully annexed Greece (prior to British guarantee of independence) with no British intervention in the past but I think the Spanish Civil war intervention coupled with a Yugo campaign will push your belligerence too high.

On a sidenote, I refuse to use Navs in any way and just convert them to Tacs.