If Italy never forms in SP, then wont be a problem to your SP games buff its ideas. Thank you for prove my point.
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Italian minors need better military national ideas
- Thread starter Zak Preston
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For italian minors I'd like some early NIs giving bonus pips to generals.
1400-1500 was still fully into the age of Condottieri and lots of italian generals were renowed in the entire europe, and often the most skilled condottiery families were the actual dukes.
The Sforza family for example were originally Condottieri that became dukes of Milan because Francesco was an amazing general (and because the ambrosian republic slef destruct in the dumbest and most spectacular way ever).
Same for families like the Gonzaga and Malatesta in Mantua and Romagna,
In Urbino, after inheriting the duky from his brother, Federico da Montefeltro was considered so good that several nations were known to pay him and his troops just to STAY AT HOME, AND DON'T FIGHT in certain wars.
Ambrogio Spinola from Genoa eventually became (with a "little" posthumous help from a "certain" painting from Velazquez) one of the most renowed tercio commanders for Spain.
And then there is Cesare Borgia that is a lenged for lots of reasons (but mostly remembered for the wrong ones...)
An early boost to Italian Military leaders should be considered and would work in giving the italian peninsula a better chance to give birth to an actual major. It could even be a 1444 triggered bonus that is later removed with an event (say "The Decline of the Condottieri") as a part of the chain event that marks the start of the Italian wars. And maybe could even be made permanent if Italy/Kingdom of God is formed BEFORE the italian war event fires.
1400-1500 was still fully into the age of Condottieri and lots of italian generals were renowed in the entire europe, and often the most skilled condottiery families were the actual dukes.
The Sforza family for example were originally Condottieri that became dukes of Milan because Francesco was an amazing general (and because the ambrosian republic slef destruct in the dumbest and most spectacular way ever).
Same for families like the Gonzaga and Malatesta in Mantua and Romagna,
In Urbino, after inheriting the duky from his brother, Federico da Montefeltro was considered so good that several nations were known to pay him and his troops just to STAY AT HOME, AND DON'T FIGHT in certain wars.
Ambrogio Spinola from Genoa eventually became (with a "little" posthumous help from a "certain" painting from Velazquez) one of the most renowed tercio commanders for Spain.
And then there is Cesare Borgia that is a lenged for lots of reasons (but mostly remembered for the wrong ones...)
An early boost to Italian Military leaders should be considered and would work in giving the italian peninsula a better chance to give birth to an actual major. It could even be a 1444 triggered bonus that is later removed with an event (say "The Decline of the Condottieri") as a part of the chain event that marks the start of the Italian wars. And maybe could even be made permanent if Italy/Kingdom of God is formed BEFORE the italian war event fires.
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You are preaching to the choir m8. A huge% of this community has no actual idea how MP games work. I have around 1.5k hours in euIV and 90% of it has been MP. SP and MP are two entirely different games.
Someone said how Italy is one of the strongest countries, i laughed so hard. In MP Italy gets roflstomped easily, since MP games always come down to two factors: income and army quality. 5% disc goes a long, long way in MP. And this is why France and Otto will always dominate MP. And if you think it's because they can blob then you are wrong, Muscovy can blob hard but it has no army quality whatsoever and just serves as cannon fodder.
But you will always get people like the guy above me making stupid suggestions such as give Italy general pip bonus, which gives you virtually nothing. Offensive ideas and good army tradition give you 6/6 pip generals more often than not.
But there is a reason I call all minors parasites in MP games. They survive only if the majors around them allow them to do so. And if Austria/France/Otto are manned by agressive players (and they always should be) minors don't survive more than two sessions. In reality, if players in Italy survive then i have to say that Austria/France are manned by bad players, since northern italy and lowlands should always be prime targets for those two.
(that is in a classic MP setting, optimaly balanced MP game should put all nations with same ideas, same starting dev etc, that way you would be able to actualy fit a lot more people in europe, primi mod did something similar)
And if there is one nation that is in dire need of army quality buffs then it's Russia.
But overall i would agree, Italian minors should get mil buffs.
Someone said how Italy is one of the strongest countries, i laughed so hard. In MP Italy gets roflstomped easily, since MP games always come down to two factors: income and army quality. 5% disc goes a long, long way in MP. And this is why France and Otto will always dominate MP. And if you think it's because they can blob then you are wrong, Muscovy can blob hard but it has no army quality whatsoever and just serves as cannon fodder.
But you will always get people like the guy above me making stupid suggestions such as give Italy general pip bonus, which gives you virtually nothing. Offensive ideas and good army tradition give you 6/6 pip generals more often than not.
But there is a reason I call all minors parasites in MP games. They survive only if the majors around them allow them to do so. And if Austria/France/Otto are manned by agressive players (and they always should be) minors don't survive more than two sessions. In reality, if players in Italy survive then i have to say that Austria/France are manned by bad players, since northern italy and lowlands should always be prime targets for those two.
(that is in a classic MP setting, optimaly balanced MP game should put all nations with same ideas, same starting dev etc, that way you would be able to actualy fit a lot more people in europe, primi mod did something similar)
And if there is one nation that is in dire need of army quality buffs then it's Russia.
But overall i would agree, Italian minors should get mil buffs.
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@staycool. killing minor players in MP without serious reasons gives "- karma" and a "badboy" trait. Also for Austria Italian player might be the only natural ally that has no serious reasons to backstab.
p.s. I completely agree about Muscovy: it needs morale or discipline boost instead of double MP boost or increased FL which it can't upkeep until lategame.
p.s. I completely agree about Muscovy: it needs morale or discipline boost instead of double MP boost or increased FL which it can't upkeep until lategame.
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I'd just like to see an added morale boost to patriarchal authority. Would make increasing it useful. Right now, when armies are made of solid gold not men, the added manpower isn't that good on its own. This would also make said morale bonus available for other orthodox countries, not just Muscovy.
Perhaps you approaching this wrong then. Several nations have events which give modifiers that either last for a fixed period or until the end of the campaign. This could be done with some of the Italian minors and Italy itself as well.
For example, if Milan leaves the HRE, it could receive an event which three choices, one of which could be Unite Italy, which gives +2.5% Discipline until end of game. Then depending on which of the three you choose it could trigger other events. So Milan grows towards the goal the player chooses, rather than being permanently good at one thing or the other.
For example, if Milan leaves the HRE, it could receive an event which three choices, one of which could be Unite Italy, which gives +2.5% Discipline until end of game. Then depending on which of the three you choose it could trigger other events. So Milan grows towards the goal the player chooses, rather than being permanently good at one thing or the other.
Are you joking? City states warred between themselves for the whole modern era, and siege military science was basically invented in Italy.
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Hello, It is for a while that we can not see.
I resume this topic after experiencing how is difficult, near to impossible, to win against French/Spanish Armies using Italy.
In this period of time I also used Austria. Austria is one of the weakest major powers in games but when I fought against French armies I never had the impression of fighting an invincible enemy, difficult but not invincible.
Italy had only 15% Infantry CA that is similar to 3% Discipline (Austrian Hofkriegsrat Idea). Austria had also +10% Morale of Armies, small bonus but very important to match against other major powers.
My suggestion is remove "Heir of Empire" idea from Italy and change it with +10% Morale of Armies.
I resume this topic after experiencing how is difficult, near to impossible, to win against French/Spanish Armies using Italy.
In this period of time I also used Austria. Austria is one of the weakest major powers in games but when I fought against French armies I never had the impression of fighting an invincible enemy, difficult but not invincible.
Italy had only 15% Infantry CA that is similar to 3% Discipline (Austrian Hofkriegsrat Idea). Austria had also +10% Morale of Armies, small bonus but very important to match against other major powers.
My suggestion is remove "Heir of Empire" idea from Italy and change it with +10% Morale of Armies.
How old is too old to revive a topic?
On topic, Italy should get wrecked by French armies. Italy was formed by Napoleon as a puppet state, not as an example of military brilliance on the part of the Italians. During many of the Italian wars Italy was more or less a battle ground, with few examples of the Italian states holding off major powers. I think Pisa is a good example, but there is a lot to be said for fighting from within a defensive position knowing independence is on the line. They also couldn't have followed up on driving the French off.
If any Nation in this game has an underrepresented military it is Portugal. Zero military Ideas for the country that spanked Castile...
It's worth pointing out that part of the brilliance of this game is that it IS'NT balanced in such a way. France should be a wrecking ball that can only be held in check with the right balance of major powers.
On topic, Italy should get wrecked by French armies. Italy was formed by Napoleon as a puppet state, not as an example of military brilliance on the part of the Italians. During many of the Italian wars Italy was more or less a battle ground, with few examples of the Italian states holding off major powers. I think Pisa is a good example, but there is a lot to be said for fighting from within a defensive position knowing independence is on the line. They also couldn't have followed up on driving the French off.
If any Nation in this game has an underrepresented military it is Portugal. Zero military Ideas for the country that spanked Castile...
It's worth pointing out that part of the brilliance of this game is that it IS'NT balanced in such a way. France should be a wrecking ball that can only be held in check with the right balance of major powers.
Without reading the full text (I don't have time right now sorry) I can confirm that Venetian cannons were the world's best during the period, I will make a big post in the next couple of weeks probably in the history with some proper details on things should anyone want some more info 
Avoid responding to threads more than a month, two at most.... especially if the question dates back before last patch/DLC.
Better create a new thread, possibly linking to this threas as reference if need be.
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