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TheButterflyComposer

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Problem Italy has now is that it's not that big population wise compared to their rivals, and heavily reliant on trade, whilst being the most easily cut off from its own colonial possessions...

Of course, VIck2 sort of breaks an imported Italy, as it makes the population so massive that it should be able to crush all opposition, provided it can stick together.
 

Casko

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Of course, VIck2 sort of breaks an imported Italy, as it makes the population so massive that it should be able to crush all opposition, provided it can stick together.
if you play HFM of HPM this tends to be the case even on regular vicky2 start, as Italy can relatively easily crush all its neighbors if it manages to get off the ground and not get into endless revolt cycle. As it has enough literate pops to to crush both France and Austrians with ease, and thus cause Austria to decline into endless revolt cycle in turn.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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if you play HFM of HPM this tends to be the case even on regular vicky2 start, as Italy can relatively easily crush all its neighbors if it manages to get off the ground and not get into endless revolt cycle. As it has enough literate pops to to crush both France and Austrians with ease, and thus cause Austria to decline into endless revolt cycle in turn.
It's rather odd really, considering how Italy should be having most of the same problems Austria has in Vicky2, only even moreso because there's no established authority or tradition outside rhe Church, and that's in decline. France spent large parts of the 19th century occupying bits of Italy and should not be so easily mauled.

Italy should be a bit more like Spain, which is sort of the opposite of them in that it's unified and got a long tradition of authority but tearing itself apart every few years with carlist rebels and such.

We'll have to see how Vick3 sorts this out...if it does at all. Frankly, given how paradox is at the moment, I'm amazed there's boats in the game at all.
 

JerseyGiants88

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Problem Italy has now is that it's not that big population wise compared to their rivals, and heavily reliant on trade, whilst being the most easily cut off from its own colonial possessions...
This is going to start to become more of a challenge for Italy from this point on. For most of this game I was making decisions for AAR/storyline purposes, but I really leaned into it with my overseas expansion. So much of my colonial policy will be rather unsustainable and lead to the dreaded cycle of revolts. If I was going for maximum expansion I would have maybe pursued a different, easier path. But, in this case, I think it gives me great AAR material.

I sort of got lost on the Victoria part of the conversation (I am not sure what HFM or HPM mean), but I never had much success in that game, particularly with any of the Italy starts. I never quite got the hang of that game the way I did with EUIV or CKII/III.
 

Casko

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I sort of got lost on the Victoria part of the conversation (I am not sure what HFM or HPM mean), but I never had much success in that game, particularly with any of the Italy starts. I never quite got the hang of that game the way I did with EUIV or CKII/III.

Historical Flavor Mod and Historical Project Mod. TLDR these make the game much more historical--ish and generally a better gameplay experience with much more flavor. Such as Carlist spain able to launch 3rd Reconquista or better Napoleon the 3rd event chain.
The way to play with Italy is to be Sardinia-piedmont, or kill Sardinia before they unify the peninsula by events.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Italy is in for a world of hurt when the real colonial big boys get going. Britian and France have huge resources and populations and access to the world, whereas Italy (whilst having plenty of the former two) is surrounded on all sides and can easily be trapped in the Med (even if they rule it) by one other power.

It does mean that they'll lose pretty much all their overseas possessions outside the Med sea. However, it also means that the global empires of the 18th and 19th centuries can deal with Italy without worrying about colonies (except in North Africa). It would be very good, strictly speaking, for the British to have a strong Italy controlling the Med and keeping all their actual rivals on their toes, for example.
 

JerseyGiants88

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Italy is in for a world of hurt when the real colonial big boys get going. Britian and France have huge resources and populations and access to the world, whereas Italy (whilst having plenty of the former two) is surrounded on all sides and can easily be trapped in the Med (even if they rule it) by one other power.

It does mean that they'll lose pretty much all their overseas possessions outside the Med sea. However, it also means that the global empires of the 18th and 19th centuries can deal with Italy without worrying about colonies (except in North Africa). It would be very good, strictly speaking, for the British to have a strong Italy controlling the Med and keeping all their actual rivals on their toes, for example.

If this was real history, you would certainly be correct. The British, French, Spanish, Dutch, etc. regularly seized each other's colonies, particularly the various islands in the Caribbean, and then dared the other to do something about it. Would their rival risk a major European war over, say, Guadeloupe? In some cases, things escalated, but most of the time the fighting was restricted to the New World. In a closer approximation of real history, an Italian colonial empire in this style would have been almost impossible to maintain against exactly that sort of threat, as you mention.

However, and thankfully (for me at any rate), the game mechanics create the exact opposite situation. In order for one of the other colonial powers to take even one of my overseas colonies, they still need to defeat me in a major European war. So, the game essentially protects me from the most critical vulnerability I have. Being penned into the Mediterranean a logistical challenge, but as long as I maintain a naval advantage against most of my rivals (by this point in the game I had built up the largest navy in the world) I am still largely free to do what I want. Even if one of my rivals parks a fleet in the Straits of Gibraltar, my navy can still blast their way through in most cases.

Not to give away spoilers, but there will be a few situations in the near future of the AAR where I was faced by this very issue. I was forced to cede ground early in the war overseas because I was not able to immediately protect my territories, but then was able to win in the end by stacking victories in Europe.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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That is faintly ridiculous. The fact you can't break out of the med and no one else can get in should not mean that all your territoires are safe. Just that everyone else steals your stuff and doesn't 'officially' have it...untill all of its gone and they all mutually recongise each others stuff.

Sure Italy can say whatever they like but...fuck em.
 

JerseyGiants88

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That is faintly ridiculous. The fact you can't break out of the med and no one else can get in should not mean that all your territoires are safe. Just that everyone else steals your stuff and doesn't 'officially' have it...untill all of its gone and they all mutually recongise each others stuff.

Sure Italy can say whatever they like but...fuck em.

I guess I do not entirely understand your point. Are you referring to Victoria or Europa Universalis?

As it stands, in this game, my Caribbean colonies fall under the Italian Indies colonial state and my mainland North American colonies fall under the New Italy colonial state. In order to take any of their provinces, one of my rivals has to declare war on them, which would bring me into the war. So to annex any of my overseas provinces, a rival has to be able to defeat me in Europe, whether or not they are able to defeat my colonial client states in the Caribbean/North America.

Edit: they may have changed this colonial mechanic in later versions of the game. I'm playing on 1.17.1 and I have not played much EUIV since playing this game for the AAR. Cities Skylines and Crusader Kings have been my Paradox drugs of choice in recent times.
 
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Casko

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As it stands, in this game, my Caribbean colonies fall under the Italian Indies colonial state and my mainland North American colonies fall under the New Italy colonial state. In order to take any of their provinces, one of my rivals has to declare war on them, which would bring me into the war. So to annex any of my overseas provinces, a rival has to be able to defeat me in Europe, whether or not they are able to defeat my colonial client states in the Caribbean/North America.

If its for story reasons, you could simply use the console to "simulate" this colonial warfare. Or the fact that your colonies are being slowly being overtaken by other, more better suited countries for new world colonization. Or sell your colonial states for Spanish support for North Africa campaign.
 

JerseyGiants88

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If its for story reasons, you could simply use the console to "simulate" this colonial warfare. Or the fact that your colonies are being slowly being overtaken by other, more better suited countries for new world colonization. Or sell your colonial states for Spanish support for North Africa campaign.

Ah, okay. Well, in that case, there is an in-story reason why Italy is able to maintain colonies in the New World. Remember, Brazil is one of my allies, and they develop into quite the heavyweight. There will also be another, even more crucial ally to pop up on that side of the Atlantic. Give me another few chapters and I will find a nice way to square this all up.
 
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TheButterflyComposer

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Ah, okay. Well, in that case, there is an in-story reason why Italy is able to maintain colonies in the New World. Remember, Brazil is one of my allies, and they develop into quite the heavyweight. There will also be another, even more crucial ally to pop up on that side of the Atlantic. Give me another few chapters and I will find a nice way to square this all up.
Makes sense. The new colonial nations need some old world protection, and it needs to be from someone pretty tough but not a colonial heavyweight themselves...
 

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Took me two weeks to fully read this fantastic AAR, but it was totally worth it! Both the history book like narration (which can be quite epic at times!) and the little histories of the vignettes are just wonderful! And the detail and internal consistency you manage to draw out of EU4 is simply mind blowing. Impressive indeed!
 
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Took me two weeks to fully read this fantastic AAR, but it was totally worth it!

Thank you!

Poor Cairo, things got pretty ugly there.

I know. It was a difficult choice. I felt like someone had to get an extra harsh reaction as a result of the rebellions. Can't let everyone off easily. Cairo presented the best narrative reason for one, particularly as I wanted to connect the Baibars movement to other similar political currents in the Middle East, North Africa, and Sahel. It won't be the last word the city gets in the story though.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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WHat happened to Crete? How did the rebelion "fizzle out?"
There are a few options but very possibly in game terms it was a small island rebellion that was very swiftly crushed and went nowhere.
 
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WHat happened to Crete? How did the rebelion "fizzle out?"

Hello and thank you for checking out my AAR. This is actually a good call out as I did forget to wrap this one up. Originally I intended it to resolve similarly to Ragusa, with the government making some concessions to key power brokers and restoring a modicum of order...

There are a few options but very possibly in game terms it was a small island rebellion that was very swiftly crushed and went nowhere.

...but, because the revolt never quite blew up, I just kind of forgot about it. I went back and checked my screen shots to jog my memory, and @TheButterflyComposer is correct: it was just very minor and got lost in the shuffle with the bigger rebellions and wars going on. This one never even got to full rebellion level. It got very close but I managed to avoid an rebel army popping up by increasing autonomy. I'll have to go back and add in a paragraph to conclude it.
 
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