It would be cool if Hoi4 Adopthed the AoD Supply System

[fabius]

Almost true
The coolest possibilities by tying this to unit stats IMO is if you can add supply capacity to supply units inside the division (like OP requested ) and also use it as a natural way to limit offensives if fuel consumption rate when moving is >>> fuel stockpiling rates of most mobile divisions.

Indeed, I guess this would be better as this was sort of the main break on major break-trough's for Germany, Allies and Russia

 

[potski]

In HoI3, all units carried a month's supply on themselves. This allowed them to survive after being cut off for some time...

They didn't. This is the point of the thread. In HOI3 the provinces held the supplies, not the units.

But I personally fail to see the practical effect, except in the situation Alex_brunius mentions. This is a second exception to the normal situation I overlooked. I mentioned only amphibious landings. But if a unit SR's then supplies move with it.

Except one major difference between the two systems. If the supplies are held by the unit, then when it is defeated in combat and retreats it will take the supplies with it. But if the supplies are in the province they are left behind and the attackers capture them. That was the behaviour of HOI3.

If you are cut-off, and therefore have to start using the local 30-day stockpile, then you start getting penalies

 

[The Starfox]

What I would like to see is a supply battalion added to the game. This battalion could come in horse, motorized, and mechanized versions, and go in the support column. Adding supply battalions could increase a units ability to draw supplies (allowing it to operate farther from a good supply node) and increase how long a unit can fight without a supply line having the division carry more supplies with it.

 

[Will Steel]

They didn't. This is the point of the thread. In HOI3 the provinces held the supplies, not the units.

They do, get your facts right mate. I bet you guys who are disagreeing have not actually played HoI3 with TFH expansion.

Here is the Wiki link if you want the proof in detail.

 

[Alex_brunius]

They do, get your facts right mate. I bet you guys who are disagreeing have not actually played HoI3 with TFH expansion.

Here is the Wiki link if you want the proof in detail.

Oh, an unofficial wiki that anyone can edit. What good proof.

As a service to the community I have now updated the wiki so that it is more correct

 

[Baltasar]

@podcat Supply system has been a major issue in HoI3, will there be a DD on this, too?

 

[Will Steel]

Oh, an unofficial wiki that anyone can edit. What good proof.

As a service to the community I have now updated the wiki so that it is more correct

I guess I have try out the thing in gameplay to prove it. It has been months since I got into that situation in HoI3 where units have to rely on emergency supplies.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I guess I have try out the thing in gameplay to prove it. It has been months since I got into that situation in HoI3 where units have to rely on emergency supplies.

It's pretty easy to disprove ( as has been written in the thread already ). You need a province containing two identical units with 50% supply status. Move one of them to the adjacent province without supplies and look at their supplies now. If supplies are actually carried on the units they would both still have 50% supplies left each (what happens in AoD). If it's in the province the unit moving will take with it's 100% of the supply needed and leave nothing behind ( actual HoI3 behavior observed ).

 

[potski]

They do, get your facts right mate. I bet you guys who are disagreeing have not actually played HoI3 with TFH expansion.

Yeah, me and Alex_brunius we're just newbs. There's no truth in the rumour we were playing HOI3 over six years ago.

Oh, an unofficial wiki that anyone can edit. What good proof.

As a service to the community I have now updated the wiki so that it is more correct

Thanks, great work as always. I was a bit tied up reviewing Arumba's video. But I think the wording could still do with a bit more clarity, and I hope you don't mind, but I changed it to:

Every unit attempts to have a 30/15(FTM/TFH) days reserve of supplies and fuel during wartime in the province where it takes supplies. For ground units, this is the province where it is currently located. For naval and air it is the province where they are based. If there are not enough supplies available in the province the units draws supplies from...

I'm not sure that bit "in wartime" is correct though. I left it in, but I'm absolutely sure the system was no different at peace. If by some chance I'm wrong, then there should be a section explaining the difference.

A bit self-indulgent, I know, but I also added back in the last sentence in the Supply Map section, crediting my work. I only just noticed the guys who did such a good job with the Wiki took it out two years ago without asking me first.

I am horrified now looking back on how complicated the whole thing was. If there was an award for the most difficult to understand UI that Paradox have ever produced, the HOI3 supply map mode would surely win it.

Let's hope podcat remembered that, and he has made sure that the new logistics system for HOI4 is actually understandable.

 

[varsovie]

My biggest issue in HOI3 supply is how easy it is to get units out of supply when moving big armies arround, more so when the army exceed the max supply of one 10log province since it wouldn't flow properly. Heck you can get enough attrition with the URSS to dry out your manpower BEFORE the war just moving your army in circle around moscow.

The system of supply carried by provinces instead of units also had unrealistic effects with strategic transportation. In strat mode they movement was so fast that you could consider units "frozen in time" gamestate wise. But as soon they reached destination they started to draw supply FROM THE CAPITAL/port instead of arriving with enough drawing in advance. Heck my biggest "lost" was a surprise Japan declaration of war while playing URSS, so I used the OOB to select a whole army group and deploy 'em far enough of the border to have time to set-up front and regain org. Well they arrived and waited supply for a whole 3 months before being able to move while taking attrition and org hits...

Also the HOI2 way to burn supply/org to double ESE (supply draw potential) was a very good game-play element, if made so you can give that kind of bonus to formations other than individual division it would allow more realistic blitzkriegs.

 

[Cybvep]

There are three big problems with HOI3's supply system IMO:
1) One-stockpile-per-one-continuous-landmass rule, which is unrealistic (often it's better to leave a one-province pathway between frontlines in order to improve the supply situation ), annoying and leads to disastrous results sometimes.
2) 1:0 gameplay. Your units either have supply or don't. Instead of a gradual loss of fighting ability, you have very binary results. This is especially visible in China.
3) Constant supply consumption. IRL units consume most supplies when they are fighting and to a lesser extent - moving. It's one of the reasons why you have to prepare your troops for major offensives and why they can't last forever. In HOI3 units consume the same amount of supplies no matter what they are doing, which is not only unrealistic, but is an another factor contributing to 1:0 nature of the gameplay.

 

[Blecky]

...
3) Constant supply consumption. IRL units consume most supplies when they are fighting and to a lesser extent - moving. It's one of the reasons why you have to prepare your troops for major offensives and why they can't last forever. In HOI3 units consume the same amount of supplies no matter what they are doing, which is not only unrealistic, but is an another factor contributing to 1:0 nature of the gameplay.

That´s the way how things work in AoD (and DH IIRC): increased supply consumption when moving; even more so when fighting.

 

[outis]

To model the supply situation, you also need to model transports -- animal, light motor, and heavy motor transports. Animal powered transports are default and don't require fuel, but they cannot be build with IC because they are born instead of being made. Motor transports can be build, but they need fuel. You need to separate light and heavy motor transports because historically, US overbuild light motor transports. During allied invasion of France, the road got saturated because there are too many light transports. And also transports are common and cannot really be separated form civilian uses, but if you took too much away from civilian, than it will impact economy.

There is also replacement policy. Russians do not send replacement to units -- only supplies, and chose to reform and rebuild units when attrition reached a certain level. This allow them to simplify logistics and multiply amount of supplies send to the units. Germany only send replacement after pulls unit off the front-line to rest, but not reform and rebuild the units like Soviet did. Americans send replacement even during battles -- which caused excessive casualties to the replacement. In the game terms, replacement should also reduce organization to model this.