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It seems strange that artillery takes up combat width.
- Thread starter Finski
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I think the big unknown is attrition, we know units take attrition in combat and I'm pretty sure they also take attrition from certain terrain and weather effects (snow, marshes etc) but what we do not know is:
1 How will the attrition be spread out over all your equipment.
and 2 How much will you actually feel the attrition
Because if the attrition is on a scale that you will need to put up a strong effort to maintain equipment levels then i do think the current system would work more then perfectly fine, if the effect was extremely limited though I would start becoming more doubtful.
1 How will the attrition be spread out over all your equipment.
and 2 How much will you actually feel the attrition
Because if the attrition is on a scale that you will need to put up a strong effort to maintain equipment levels then i do think the current system would work more then perfectly fine, if the effect was extremely limited though I would start becoming more doubtful.
HoI is older than CK and almost as old as EU, and historically have shared the same game engine. While the latest iteration of that engine may have started with CK2 & EU4, to imply that they didn't even consider the possibility of making a HoI game on the same engine while designing it (or outright failed in execution) seems ill-considered.
Going slightly offtopic here, does anyone here watching the WWW have an idea of how much combat width the other battalions use, such as Armour, Anti-tank, Anti-air, SP-arty, Motorised Inf, Mechanised Inf and so on?
This is because as this whole thread shows, combat width will be used to balance combat effectiveness but I've not seen a definitive list anywhere.
This is because as this whole thread shows, combat width will be used to balance combat effectiveness but I've not seen a definitive list anywhere.
Lol, my bad, haven't looked at it for some time. Looking at it, Infantry have width 2, Artillery 3 but Motorised 1? I think it might be a bit outdated. Thanks anyway, good to have an idea what to expect.
It's hard to tell sometimes. Since we've only got outdated and incomplete information, it's possible that motorised normally have width 2 but were under the effects of some doctrine or other bonus at the time.
However, it looks like the slower your unit is, the more width it takes up, which makes width seem more like a "How easy is it to get this unit into the fight?" stat rather than a "How much physical space does this unit occupy?" stat.
However, it looks like the slower your unit is, the more width it takes up, which makes width seem more like a "How easy is it to get this unit into the fight?" stat rather than a "How much physical space does this unit occupy?" stat.
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Maybe a doctrine similar to spearhead had been researched decreasing the with of armor and motorized in general.
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You know that but I don't. I see only that there is a huge difference in realism between HOI3 and HOI4 despite the effort of the developers. Therefore if the moddability of HOI4 is definitively a step forward (and you can say the same for many things such as the AI), I notice the absence of air units (which implies teleporting planes and paradrops), the nonexistence of logistics and so forth.
This "artillery has width" issue is a problem because it distorts reality. Correct me if I am wrong, but imagine a battle with 10 width between two nations with two divisions on each side. One nation has pure infantry divisions with 9 battalions of infantry and no artillery. The other nation has artillery supported infantry divisions with 9 front line battalions of infantry and an indirect battalion of artillery. The front line battalions on each side are identical -- each side has 18 infantry battalions in two divisions, but one nation has the advantage, because it's divisions have indirect artillery support. However, according to my understanding, the pure infantry divisions will each have a width of 9 and the artillery backed divisions will have a width of 12. So, in a hypothetical battlefield 10 wide, the 2 pure infantry divisions will be able to join the battle, whereas only one artillery supported division could join.
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It feels strange to me that artillery would be a frontline unit in the first place.
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HOI4 doesn't make a distinction between frontline and support line. A division fights as one single unit.
It seems strange to me that people are talking about this without even playing it to see how it affects balance in reality. All of the naysayers are basically quoting hearsay based on experiences with HOI3 (which was extremely unbalanced), rather than actually looking at the game mechanics in the context of the game it is actually in.
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It seems strange to me that people are leaping to defense of game mechanics that they haven't seen played out in reality.
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Because we trust the developers. I mean they made some pretty good strategy games so far...
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This is from earlier in the thread but couldn't supply be a way to simulate ammunition? Why not have ART take 3, 4, or even 10 times the usual supply when fighting?
Wouldn't the same also apply to people leaping to attack game mechanics they haven't seen played out in reality?
Because then your troops march into an area, sit around for a week with no problems, and then the moment battle is joined everyone in the region starts dropping dead from supply shortages.
Making them cost more supply is a reasonable idea, but it should be a consistent amount whether firing or not.
Wouldn't that be the fault of the commander (player or AI) for not making sure there is enough bandwidth to get ammo in? It seems to me that's exactly what you want. If everyone is dropping dead from supply shortages, maybe look at reducing the crazy amount of ART your divisions are hauling around. Obviously, you don't have the supply bandwidth for them in this case.
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It's been shown in the WWW streams that if you do not keep dedicated factory lines up for equipment, attrition will cause your units to lose much of their ability to fight.
I think it's better game design if you don't lay traps for unwary players and AIs.
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