Issues regarding Hungary and the new map changes

[mcmaha1]

Hungary, in the new version, doesn't get claims on West Banat. It can't demand it through Demand Vojvodina Focus. Additionally, when Germany does Second Vienna Award, should it choose to transfer all of Transylvania, Hungary will not receive Banat. This is a bit of an oversight, since if Hungary takes the focus Demand Transylvania, it gets Banat as well. In general, it would make sense for Hungary to have focus options aiming to reclaim all of the pre-Trianon lands.

 

[destroyer008]

Yes this is still the case. It is just annoying, but I'd love to see Paradox to fix it.

 

[Zeprion]

Demand the Vojvodina focus is on the historical path and Hungary didn't get West Banat historically. The rest I agree with. There is also a random criteria for cores. I noticed Hungary has cores on all of Transylvania but not on Banat. What is the reasoning behind this? If we go by ethnicity, every region had a Romanian majority with the most significant Hungarian minority being in Northern Transylvania. By 1940, Northern Transylvania had 50% Romanians and 37% Hungarians according to Romanians and 48% Romanians and 38% Hungarians according to Hungarians. The rest of the Transylvanian regions, Banat included, had about 20% Hungarian population. If we go by the territory that a country considers rightfully theirs, then there's no reason not to include Banat as Banat used to be part of Hungary back when it was part of Austria-Hungary.

 

[Dlin369]

I hope they one day go over all the different states and turn a lot of cores into claims with high compliance. Especially for formable states like Rome - I'm fine with having some easter-eggs and jokes but I think cores should be something that are very carefully given out. Or at least have Cores be able to have resistance/compliance levels if your government is unpopular or unstable

 

[Vin55]

I mean I would put it in as core, manpower is now even more scare with occupation and hungary is the only on who cant form some crazy balkannation (except Austria-Hugary ofc^^) so I would be generous with cores, where you can still see the influence of the old administration and culture, by that point in time hungary was partly in control of that region for nearly 1000 years and had only recently lost control over it. So why not give them cores there, I mean atm if you play a minor in the game in sp you are the guy who single handed needs to hold Italy, southern France and atlantic wall and kill the soviets, cause with the new big patch, ai will spam naval invasions like a retard (I mean if US looses with 3 mil or more in pointless invasions against hungary, they would fire their generals and vote out of the war^^).

 

[Áurum]

Hungary, in the new version, doesn't get claims on West Banat. It can't demand it through Demand Vojvodina Focus. Additionally, when Germany does Second Vienna Award, should it choose to transfer all of Transylvania, Hungary will not receive Banat. This is a bit of an oversight, since if Hungary takes the focus Demand Transylvania, it gets Banat as well. In general, it would make sense for Hungary to have focus options aiming to reclaim all of the pre-Trianon lands.

Not new version, that mistake has existed for years. For some reason, Hungary doesn't get a core on Banat and that causes problems.
Demand Vojvodina is correct because it's meant to be realistic, although maybe Germany could be able to choose what to transfer to Hungary. Anyway, it's always a mess because the occupation of Yugoslavia is so badly implemented that many times Hungary already owns all of Serbia and Greece.

 

[goodcigar]

I think I find big problem with Balkan occupation. I play Spain game and watch Balkan country whole time. To see if update finally make occupation historic on historic mode. But occupation still mess up like before. And think know why.

The historic occupation border only happen if player/AI do "Demand Slovenia" Focus branch which not happen in real life. The invasion happen in real life. So unhistoric Focus "Demand Slovenia" give historic occupation border. But historic Focus/invasion not give historic occupation border. It backward and silly.

Also, in vanilla map the states/borders are still wrong. That separate problem. Some mod fix that though like Yugoslavia State Overhaul (1.10). Though Greece still wrong in that mod.

 

[Zeprion]

Not new version, that mistake has existed for years. For some reason, Hungary doesn't get a core on Banat and that causes problems.
Demand Vojvodina is correct because it's meant to be realistic, although maybe Germany could be able to choose what to transfer to Hungary. Anyway, it's always a mess because the occupation of Yugoslavia is so badly implemented that many times Hungary already owns all of Serbia and Greece.

West Banat was highly contentious between Hungary and Romania, apparently almost resulted in a war between the two hence why Hungarians only took the in-game state of Vodjvodina and Germany administered West Banat with the rest of Serbia. The Romanians were also trying to prove themselves to the Germans in hopes of renegotiating the Second Vienna Award, this prompted Hungary to be equally competitive.

Since new game mechanics were added with Bulgaria's promised territory. It would be interesting to have a German - Hungarian - Romanian decisions chain after Second Vienna Award where Hungary and Romania compete with each other over warscore contribution to influence the German player/AI to offer the regions of North Transylvania and West Banat to them instead of the other.

 

[Fulmen]

For all intents and purposes the game has two types of cores:

First is the realistic core based on a nation's capacity to mobilise that state's population for its industry and military. More or less all cores in normal historical play are of this type.

Second is what I call the meme core, granted by meme focuses and meme decisions where all bets as to their logic are off. These only show up if something ahistorical is done like reforming the Roman Empire.

Only the first category should be given thought in any serious discussion of what should and should not be a core and for whom.

West Banat was highly contentious between Hungary and Romania, apparently almost resulted in a war between the two hence why Hungarians only took the in-game state of Vodjvodina and Germany administered West Banat with the rest of Serbia. The Romanians were also trying to prove themselves to the Germans in hopes of renegotiating the Second Vienna Award, this prompted Hungary to be equally competitive.

West Banat was desired by both Hungary and Romania. The Germans kept it under their administration a) as a carrot, b) to avoid favouritism, and c) to not worsen Hungarian-Romanian relations.

 

[Zeprion]

For all intents and purposes the game has two types of cores:

First is the realistic core based on a nation's capacity to mobilise that state's population for its industry and military. More or less all cores in normal historical play are of this type.

Second is what I call the meme core, granted by meme focuses and meme decisions where all bets as to their logic are off. These only show up if something ahistorical is done like reforming the Roman Empire.

Only the first category should be given thought in any serious discussion of what should and should not be a core and for whom.

West Banat was desired by both Hungary and Romania. The Germans kept it under their administration a) as a carrot, b) to avoid favouritism, and c) to not worsen Hungarian-Romanian relations.

I agree. Especially with your definition for a core, a nation's capacity to mobilise that state's population for its industry and military. However, the problem is that the game still has meme cores on historical runs.

A lot of people complain that Hungary doesn't get a core on Banat. I find it unhistorical that Hungary can get cores on everything except Southern Slovakia. The other regions may have been previously part of Greater Hungary, but most of the population in the lost regions is non-Hungarian. I don't believe that a people who would see themselves effectively under Hungarian occupation would give Hungary an easy time mobilising that state's population for its industry and military.

In 1910, only 54.5% of Greater Hungary's population was Hungarian, excluding the autonomous region of Croatia within Greater Hungary. Out of 20.900.000 people, only 10.900.000 were ethnic Hungarians. Out of the 13.300.000 people that got separated from Hungary after the Treaty of Trianon, only 3.300.000 were Hungarians, and the only post-Trianon region outside of Hungary where the Hungarians would still constitute an ethnic majority was Southern Slovakia. I don't suppose there's any data for a hypothetical Greater Hungary in 1936, but it's safe to bet the population of Hungarians didn't increase in Yugoslavia, Romania and Czechoslovakia after 1920.

Hungary is not the only country with meme cores, some are no-brainers like Bulgaria getting cores on Western Thrace. Austria-Hungary on the other hand is part of the 2nd category where all bets as to their logic are off.

 

[Fulmen]

However, the problem is that the game still has meme cores on historical runs.

Which historical focus gives fictional cores? The Hungarian "Reaffirm Territorial Demands" sub-branch is alt-history. I think Hungary might get cores on Northern Transylvania through the Second Vienna Award, but that's ranging into core-worthy territory, at least with the Székely area. Now that state modifers are a thing though, PDX could represent mixed-ethnicity territories with varying degrees of state-specific modifiers, including differing levels of resistance, recruitable population, factory slots and so on.

 

[Ayetach]

Demand the Vojvodina focus is on the historical path and Hungary didn't get West Banat historically. The rest I agree with. There is also a random criteria for cores. I noticed Hungary has cores on all of Transylvania but not on Banat. What is the reasoning behind this? If we go by ethnicity, every region had a Romanian majority with the most significant Hungarian minority being in Northern Transylvania. By 1940, Northern Transylvania had 50% Romanians and 37% Hungarians according to Romanians and 48% Romanians and 38% Hungarians according to Hungarians. The rest of the Transylvanian regions, Banat included, had about 20% Hungarian population. If we go by the territory that a country considers rightfully theirs, then there's no reason not to include Banat as Banat used to be part of Hungary back when it was part of Austria-Hungary.

iirc the fascist movement in Hungary was not as interested in Romania’s banat region as they were transylvania proper. The claim does however help with compliance if the Hungarians administered that state at any point.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

West Banat was desired by both Hungary and Romania. The Germans kept it under their administration a) as a carrot, b) to avoid favouritism, and c) to not worsen Hungarian-Romanian relations.

There should be an in-game decision to award it to either Hungary or Romania (+opinion). Of course the other nation would be displeaed and lose opinion.

 

[Zeprion]

Which historical focus gives fictional cores? The Hungarian "Reaffirm Territorial Demands" sub-branch is alt-history. I think Hungary might get cores on Northern Transylvania through the Second Vienna Award, but that's ranging into core-worthy territory, at least with the Székely area. Now that state modifers are a thing though, PDX could represent mixed-ethnicity territories with varying degrees of state-specific modifiers, including differing levels of resistance, recruitable population, factory slots and so on.

"Oppose Hitler" is also alt-history but I don't think it should give Germany cores on Netherlands because it's alt-history. The path Germany takes may change, but the population of Netherlands would dislike German rule regardless.

Hungary can get cores on: North Transylvania, Crisana, Transylvania, Southern Slovakia, Vojvodina, West Banat. Out of these, only Southern Slovakia had a Hungarian majority. Székely is not represented in the game as a standalone region but together with the rest of North Transylvania, where half of the whole population is Romanian and probably pissed about being annexed by Hungary.

State modifiers are kind of meh and can lead to buggy situations, much like Bulgaria's pre-annexation mechanics (the bug reports section is full of them) which would have been less buggy if they would have simply gave claims to Bulgaria. I would rather have: Cores, partial cores (30% of manpower and full factories) and occupied territories. This way, the regions with a significant minority could still enjoy some form of cores while not being a full core.