Isolationist playstyle viable in 1.5/Utopia?

[Dr. B]

Hi! Previously, playing as introspective isolationists who wants to be left alone and not deal with other empires (like for example Xenophobe/Spiritualist/Pacifist) has been tough, as the game has heavily favoured conquest.

All the new options coming seems promising, but will it really be possible to stay competitive with other empires now by keeping to yourself and playing "tall", for lack of a better word?

 

[Gaen]

As Wiz have said its about giving tall players more options for how to play not making them competitive with wide empires.

"this is more about ensuring that small empires don't run out of options. Big empires *should* be stronger than small empires, the question is just how much and in which ways."

 

[BarskiPatzow]

I'm looking forward to trying this too. It will probably be possible to isolate yourself, but if someone big decides to attack you, you will need alliances or to be strong yourself.

 

[Drakonn]

Yea, I think the main problem with playing Isolationist is that you need to give the AI a very good reason not to come and conquer you as if you don't have a big enough fleet the AI sees that as grounds to come after you. Minding your own business is apparently not quite reason enough. Hoping 1.5 helps and I think it will (especially if someone gets boxed in).

Granted, I play Fanatic Militarist/Xenophobe or the reverse soooo maybe that's just who I pick is why hehe.

 

[BarskiPatzow]

Yea, I think the main problem with playing Isolationist is that you need to give the AI a very good reason not to come and conquer you as if you don't have a big enough fleet the AI sees that as grounds to come after you. Minding your own business is apparently not quite reason enough. Hoping 1.5 helps and I think it will (especially if someone gets boxed in).

Granted, I play Fanatic Militarist/Xenophobe or the reverse soooo maybe that's just who I pick is why hehe.

Bombarding into oblivion and purging... what is there not to love?

 

[Drakonn]

Bombarding into oblivion and purging... what is there not to love?

With all the new enslaving/purging/food/Vassal options in 1.5 it's going to be hard for me not to play these guys.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Isolationist is akin to surrender.

Go big or go home: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857420711

 

[BarskiPatzow]

With all the new enslaving/purging/food/Vassal options in 1.5 it's going to be hard for me not to play these guys.

I'm re-reading dev diaries damn this is gonna be good

 

[Diezy]

I already had a quite nice playthough as some Fanatic Xenophobic space elves, where we secured some vital space and just turtled up in our corner.

Just kidding we terraformed and blobbed like crazy and terraformed some more as borders squeezed into the neighbors! Fanatic Xenophobic Star Empires are lovely

Eventually turning more interventionist and pacifying(vassalizing) everone. I'm quite excited to try them again with the Purge changes, as they're still noble and self-restrained, so they won't purge or enslave. I can just banish them out of my space in 1.5! ^_^

 

[Drakonn]

Has anyone done a playthrough where they tried to be Isolationist or turned Isolationist after a while and had the AI actually leave them alone? It seems that if you have a weaker fleet it's a near automatic grounds to be picked on. That or I just need to play more with dedicated Isolationists build empires.

 

[Foefaller]

From what I've seen, it's almost there. Space Habitats, Megastuctures and the new faction/ethics system should keep things interesting for times you have no space (or desire) to expand, while Traditions/Unity and Ascension perks should help smaller empires punch above their weight (especially since You gain traditions faster the happier and more united your empire is, and smaller, single species empires should have less to deal with in terms of ethics divergence and hostile factions)

On the other hand, to be truely isolastionist- not just a small empire with lots of friends you can call on- simply won't be there yet. Mainly because a wardec with a larger empire will mean a fleet that by midgame problably has a power rating that is several K larger than your entire navy. Until there is a Bank/Utopia update for warfare, being small and alone is a recipe for being conquered.

 

[LordMagus]

Has anyone done a playthrough where they tried to be Isolationist or turned Isolationist after a while and had the AI actually leave them alone? It seems that if you have a weaker fleet it's a near automatic grounds to be picked on. That or I just need to play more with dedicated Isolationists build empires.

Would probably need to be a xenophile to make it less likely for others to declare war on you.

 

[Dr. B]

Has anyone done a playthrough where they tried to be Isolationist or turned Isolationist after a while and had the AI actually leave them alone? It seems that if you have a weaker fleet it's a near automatic grounds to be picked on. That or I just need to play more with dedicated Isolationists build empires.

Hopefully there will be appropriate traditions and ascendancies to support a focus on for example unity, purity and science/high-tech.

This combined with some way to add to fleet cap (habitats maybe?) should make you able to at least defend against an aggressive hegemonist.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

From what I have experienced it seems certainly *more* viable and fun.
But it isn't on CIV5 powerlevels for tall (yet), so Martin's comment is pretty much spot on.

 

[Madzai]

Play in lager galaxy with fewer AI and no clustered start mod. Select Traits that favor fast colonization like adaptive. Select Traditions that work best for your playstyle.

As side note, i think that all problems with have with balancing playstyles (as early slave rush) came from one simple things - default rules set in Stellaris heavy favor some of them. It was obviously done to make middle game more like EU - diplomacy and such, but it simply don't work in environment where everyone are near-equal. In such condition ever minimal bonus (as from slaves, f.e.) will allow you to have an upper hand. It's already been reworked in 1.5 - the real differences in output start to appear only by midgame and additional obstacles for early conquest are introduced, but i still think that balancing ever playstyle for default rules is an impossible task.

 

[Cat Crusade]

I think whats happening is that isolationists will still be threatened, but will have more options and stuff to do for their playstyle to help somewhat even the field. An expansive empire should still be the most threatening thing and I think it'll stay that way from what we saw. It'll just have to deal with more challenges in terms of internal politics and ethos management. I think this would be the ideal balance, cause if isolationism allowed you to be completely outside of being threatened by an outsider then the game would be at risk of not being fun. Just needed more tools to mitigate the threat and more stuff to do except sitting there and shaking your fist at anyone approaching your borders

 

[monsterfurby]

I only see one definitive way to make this ultimately viable: trade. One of the things that GalCiv 2+3 did right was to make the AI actually weigh the value of their trade against the possible gains of going to war. Declaring war on one's main trading partner has to be a bad idea even if they are much smaller and militarily inferior.

Alas, Utopia doesn't look like its additions will be enough to expand on that particular topic.

Edit: I realize that playing a small trading hub is not strictly "isolationism". However, considering only nations that are economically strong in their own right could historically afford isolationism (isn't that right, North Korea?), I would say that some degree of establishing other empires' dependence of its own resources is required to successfully keep out of galactic strategic conflicts.

That said, they could also just allow mega defense stations and make defending friendly space generally easier overall.

 

[henzington]

I am curious what they do with Spiritualist and the conformist trait.

 

[Kilmantor]

I my opinion, playing an isolationist playstyle should always be a little bit inferior to a conqueror/politics/interaction/trader playstyle - just because it's more difficult and playing more active should be rewarded more compared to just turtling turtling in your own boarders.

 

[Madzai]

I my opinion, playing an isolationist playstyle should always be a little bit inferior to a conqueror/politics/interaction/trader playstyle - just because it's more difficult and playing more active should be rewarded more compared to just turtling turtling in your own boarders.

It's the same as saying that introverts will be always inferior to extroverts. If i managed to snatch a big chuck of territory and instead of messing with wars\diplomacy and further attempts to expand outwards, start to expand inwards, why i should be weaker?

But if game doesn't give you the ability to obtain enough territory peacefully, that's a completely different story.