Isolasionist faction (based on info from stream)

[LordPavel]

In the steam, we saw one player (Wiz I think) with an isolationist faction. This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy.

To be clear, I understand the game ask to a player to do something like that. This can be a good idea. But right now, the static defense are not great. Only huge system with many station can do a little. And a single station in one system can only be use for win 3 days if a fleet attack.

Right now, if the game propose me to build a station in all my system, I will make the cheapest station as possible (no weapon, no armor, nothing). And I dont think this is a good way.
If the game ask me to spend X% of my energy income, I will try to spend this X% the most efficiently as possible. I will do this defense near a hot border, near my capital, or a stategic system and not near the more deep little system.
France build the ligne Maginot near Germany, not everywhere is France. USA start to deploy the anti-nuclear weapons system in Alaska and California and not everywhere in USA (and want build a wall near Mexico and not everywhere in the country). Often the old castles was build for secure a border, no everywhere.

 

[Drakonn]

I will make the cheapest station as possible (no weapon, no armor, nothing). And I dont think this is a good way.

We don't know what changes they may be making to Defense Stations with the Update/Expansion. There are still many dev diaries to come, balance changes to find out, and features unannounced. Though I do understand your concern about just essentially bypassing the Faction's happiness penalty by doing this. Never been fond of the player to do that (I'm looking at you Ethics Divergence)

 

[Radically Right Wing]

In the steam, we saw one player (Wiz I think) with an isolationist faction. This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy.

To be clear, I understand the game ask to a player to do something like that. This can be a good idea. But right now, the static defense are not great. Only huge system with many station can do a little. And a single station in one system can only be use for win 3 days if a fleet attack.

Right now, if the game propose me to build a station in all my system, I will make the cheapest station as possible (no weapon, no armor, nothing). And I dont think this is a good way.
If the game ask me to spend X% of my energy income, I will try to spend this X% the most efficiently as possible. I will do this defense near a hot border, near my capital, or a stategic system and not near the more deep little system.
France build the ligne Maginot near Germany, not everywhere is France. USA start to deploy the anti-nuclear weapons system in Alaska and California and not everywhere in USA (and want build a wall near Mexico and not everywhere in the country). Often the old castles was build for secure a border, no everywhere.

Yes but they are a faction, not a group of military strategists. This is just to make them feel safe, its not like they are actually thinking it through.

 

[Mackus]

I am more bothered with "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy" than "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy".
That's awful. Horribly awful, to be precise.
I am not microing to have station in every system, I am not gonna bother to check every system whether it has station. F those faction ass holes.
PDX please replace this "in every populated system" nonsense with "in most of populated systems". Same with authoritarian factions demanding six armies on every planet. No. No.
Microing is not fun. You might as well drop sectors.

 

[Drakonn]

I am more bothered with "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy" than "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy".
That's awful. Horribly awful, to be precise.
I am not microing to have station in every system, I am not gonna bother to check every system whether it has station. F those faction ass holes.
PDX please replace this "in every populated system" nonsense with "in most of populated systems". Same with authoritarian factions demanding six armies on every planet. No. No.
Microing is not fun. You might as well drop sectors.

You can just ignore them and take the penalty. Might be part of the design. Players should have to deal with less than ideal situations/consequences they can't just cheese/easily get out of.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I am more bothered with "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy" than "This faction ask to have one station in every populated system for be happy".
That's awful. Horribly awful, to be precise.
I am not microing to have station in every system, I am not gonna bother to check every system whether it has station. F those faction ass holes.
PDX please replace this "in every populated system" nonsense with "in most of populated systems". Same with authoritarian factions demanding six armies on every planet. No. No.
Microing is not fun. You might as well drop sectors.

...how many inhabited systems do you tend to have?

Sectors will auto-build defensive stations in inhabited systems already if you let them.

 

[Bayes]

Yes but they are a faction, not a group of military strategists. This is just to make them feel safe, its not like they are actually thinking it through.

Man I love this explanation so much! I hope thats a part of the design philosophy.

 

[Mackus]

Sectors will auto-build defensive stations in inhabited systems already if you let them.

Of course they will.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Of course they will.

They've done it reliably in all my recent games, so, yeah. They will. It might take a little while, but if you tick "Military Stations" in the list of things they can do, you'll get the military station icon over all your inhabited Sector systems.

 

[Mackus]

They've done it reliably in all my recent games, so, yeah. They will. It might take a little while, but if you tick "Military Stations" in the list of things they can do, you'll get the military station icon over all your inhabited Sector systems.

Probably so.

Factions should, in my view, demands things that make sense in general, even if not from point of particular gameplay. Stuff like xeonphobes demanding xeno-slavery, it makes sense they want you to play xenophobe, or vice verse, xenophiles demanding xeno-liberation, which makes sense they want you to play xenophile, and so on.

Planting single defense platform in each inhabited system does not make a lot of sense. Better to place single fortress in each crucial or border system. Especially in hyperline-only play.
Rather that arbitrary one military station per system, isolationists ought to demand that certain ratio of military stations per habitable planets be maintained, or that navy would use certain fraction of naval capacity was used as deterrent. So the player could place the defences in sensible places, rather than passively-aggressively design cheapest possible stations.

 

[Drakonn]

Probably so.

Factions should, in my view, demands things that make sense in general, even if not from point of particular gameplay. Stuff like xeonphobes demanding xeno-slavery, it makes sense they want you to play xenophobe, or vice verse, xenophiles demanding xeno-liberation, which makes sense they want you to play xenophile, and so on.

Planting single defense platform in each inhabited system does not make a lot of sense. Better to place single fortress in each crucial or border system. Especially in hyperline-only play.
Rather that arbitrary one military station per system, isolationists ought to demand that certain ratio of military stations per habitable planets be maintained, or that navy would use certain fraction of naval capacity was used as deterrent. So the player could place the defences in sensible places, rather than passively-aggressively design cheapest possible stations.

It doesn't make sense in a hyperlane only game. In a game that also has Warp and Wormhole FTL being able to defend systems not on the border through static defenses (whether those static defenses are good at the moment is another argument) is a bit crucial. There's also the sense of security it would give a civilian population. Which I believe is the Faction's reasoning as well.

An Isolationist Faction arising due to meeting new and alien races makes complete sense as that is more along the lines of what would possibly happen. As opposed to every single POP magically wanting to be friendly with them because of a trait pick (unless you RP your species that way then of course there are such variants).

Still agreed that designing cheap stations and using those is too easy a way around a negative modifier. Which players seem to love to do. Why not make the requirement of the military stations in each system also have a certain Fleet Power (scaling with your empire's tech/power as well)? This would prevent players from bypassing the mechanic.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

It doesn't make sense in a hyperlane only game. In a game that also has Warp and Wormhole FTL being able to defend systems not on the border through static defenses (whether those static defenses are good at the moment is another argument) is a bit crucial. There's also the sense of security it would give a civilian population. Which I believe is the Faction's reasoning as well.

An Isolationist Faction arising due to meeting new and alien races makes complete sense as that is more along the lines of what would possibly happen. As opposed to every single POP magically wanting to be friendly with them because of a trait pick (unless you RP your species that way then of course there are such variants).

Still agreed that designing cheap stations and using those is too easy a way around a negative modifier. Which players seem to love to do. Why not make the requirement of the military stations in each system also have a certain Fleet Power (scaling with your empire's tech/power as well)? This would prevent players from bypassing the mechanic.

In fairness, a government reacting to public demand for increased defences by skimping on the stations themselves and constructing paper tigers seems awfully realistic in its own way.

I've actually been experimenting with more defensive-based empire management and, with the right mods, its entirely workable.

 

[TestosteroneLol]

...how many inhabited systems do you tend to have?

Sectors will auto-build defensive stations in inhabited systems already if you let them.

80-100 relatively often, and that's just when you dominate your corner of the galaxy

 

[henzington]

Depends on the size of map too but I have easily have had 100 planets as a direct democracy and individualist. The combined happiness bonus from both makes ethos divergence completely irrelevant.

 

[JoeMad]

Yea, I can see how it could get a bit silly, but it is worth noting that the factions might not be terribly rational (as has been mentioned). Funny that you mention our "wall" for instance. To actually make it work in any real fashion would require an amazing amount of resources, time, manpower, and money, and is something that is seeming less and less likely to happen, considering how recent news has certain Republicans in congress trying to kill the idea. If any work is actually done it probably won't be as effective or nearly as ambitious as was originally planned. But, frankly, it wasn't ever really meant to be effective, or a true deterrent. It was simply a popular talking point, and the idea of it made people feel better. The idea of a bunch of cheap space stations crafted overhead for "the feels" actually makes a whole lot of sense. You don't actually have to invest a ton of time or money into it, and your citizens can look to the stars and be content knowing that space mollusks won't be coming to steal their jobs.

 

[Drakonn]

In fairness, a government reacting to public demand for increased defences by skimping on the stations themselves and constructing paper tigers seems awfully realistic in its own way.

I've actually been experimenting with more defensive-based empire management and, with the right mods, its entirely workable.

That's a good point. I'm just against things that make game mechanics entirely too easy to bybass without the player dealing with them.

 

[LordPavel]

It was simply a popular talking point, and the idea of it made people feel better. The idea of a bunch of cheap space stations crafted overhead for "the feels" actually makes a whole lot of sense. You don't actually have to invest a ton of time or money into it, and your citizens can look to the stars and be content knowing that space mollusks won't be coming to steal their jobs.

Even the ''factions terribly rational'' in USA dont ask to build a wall in the middle of Nebraska. They ask a wall in the south, a nuclear protection in the east, and more cops in aerports. In strategics places.
After, if the ''defense'' are not really effective (or are) this is another topic. I am not really sure if I spend X% of my production for station, that will be efficient for fight with another empire. Nobody ask to build everywhere xeno-defense, this will be another level of stupidity. NATO ask to spend 2% of PIB in military for example, but dont really explain how (but everybody expect this money will go in strategics places).

Yes but they are a faction, not a group of military strategists. This is just to make them feel safe, its not like they are actually thinking it through.

USA spend many billions of dollars for the nuclear defense for have 20 interceptors flights, and almost every expert think this is totally useless if Russia decide to launch their 10 000 nuclears weapons in one shot.
But say ''I decide to spend 10 000 000 000 dollars to protect our country'' is the goal. Even if it is useless, this ressources are spend in specifics places. Not everywhere.

 

[The Shacks]

Your not really considering what a space-empire is like. Solar-systems are fairly isolated places, very large places as well. Wanting a visible military presence SOMEWHERE in each solar-system is not particularly crazy. It's not like saying they're demanding a giant wall in every county in a country, not at all. More like asking for a police-station if anything. Think of it as a local nexus of whatever millitary/defence forces your empire has. A solar-system without a millitary/naval presence is going to be a hive of piracy and unlawfulness, atleast moreso than one with a central specfic millitary-hub.