Isn't raiding supposed to earn money for me?

[Kryndude]

What I noticed so far playing a viking is that maintenance of ships and levies exceeds loot income, and sailing out with enough soldiers to raid a lucrative catholic province become meaningless due to it.

Am I doing something wrong here?

 

[TL_]

You definitely need to be strategic in your choice - closer is usually better because you waste less time sailing and not raiding. Of course, the main reason you raid is for prestige and traits.

 

[Thrake]

You definitely need to be strategic in your choice - closer is usually better because you waste less time sailing and not raiding. Of course, the main reason you raid is for prestige and traits.

Hum... Have you ever raided Rome out of curiosity? The only important thing when raiding is to make sure you have enough men or your target is sufficiently busy to let you loot more than just the castle; the money is in towns and temples. If you can't then I'd suggest looting tribals with churches; lots of counts very easy to raid for quick money. I still like looting feudal more because sometimes there's a few hundred gold worth of prisoners in a castle (prioritize english dukes if you can't go for kings and if you can loot Muslims then you might hit the jackpot with their large families) and sometimes there's a princess that's worth more than wathever ransom you can get for her.

It happens that I barely break even but typically looting brings me much more money than what I'd get sitting on my hands mawing out income building as a tribal (plus prestige, prisoners,...).

 

[Harassercat]

You should be able to profit very well from raiding. Here's a few approaches that can work well:

1. Go around "skimming the cream", i.e. just move into counties and take the loot that is not protected by fort level. Check the counties first - I look for clusters of counties with at least 25g in each, though preferably closer to 50g in each. This is the only way to reliably raid strong realms, like Germany, France, Spain, etc.

2. Raid theocracies and republics. Since the capital holding is a city or temple, it's easy to siege down and loot. Likely targets are Rome, Amalfi and Venice, all of which I've raided for good profit (oh and they're all in the same area too). Also remember that you can sail up and down major rivers as a Germanic raider; I've sometimes raided lone theocracies far inland in Europe.

3. Raid for ransom. Some players say it's not worthwhile to raid tribal counties but I'm not sure I agree, given how much you can get from ransom. Tribes are easy to siege down and if they're the capital of a chief or high chief, then you're likely to capture most of the women and children in his court. For good returns I'd say look for a county that has a temple too, and a ruler with a large family (heirs can be worth 46g each). Oh and make sure the guy has money to cough up

Finally, on point #3, I've also used it to get a woman I wanted as a concubine (a 16 year old genius of course). They wouldn't accept my courteous invitations or requests for conubinage, so I decided to send my ships over to get this lady the Viking way Worked like a charm, though she wasn't very positive to me at first.

Oh and make sure your ruler gets the Viking trait if you're Germanic! You need to have him heading the raiding army and then complete the siege of a holding. You don't always get it right away, but it's fairly easy to get.

 

[foreman_domai]

You can also split up your levies and have multiple sieges going so you fill up your ships faster.

I generally have 2 armies raiding different provinces adjacent to the same sea tile. Pillaging all the holdings of these 2 counties will fill up your first initial 15 ship fleet with loot. Then while my levies siege the next two counties my ships drop off the loot and are back before the siege is done. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[CannotresistDLC]

Harassercat put it pretty well. The only thing I'd add is that you should definitely make use of your retinues for the 'skimming the cream' type of raiding as they cost the same thing sitting on their arses as they do carrying gold onto your longships. They're especially effective when you have enough to split them into multiple 500-unit stacks and can then raid all of the provinces of smaller realms at the same time - leaving your AI target with no way to even attempt to retaliate until you're already gone. Just make sure you don't let your retinues get caught by enemy armies - if you have to pay to reinforce them you can quickly eat up your profits.

Compared to this tactic, fully looting counties with castle primary holdings using your levies is hugely inefficient. I only bother with that kind of stuff if I want to sucker punch an enemy state that's already at war with someone else - IE weaken him before I declare war soon thereafter.

A serious, long-term (IE when I don't want/expect to go to war for a while) raiding fleet usually hits the richer coastal counties all the way around mainland Europe plus lowland England and the west coast of Africa, and I'll converge my 500-unit retinue stacks to loot any merchant republics and Rome (until I run into the first castle holding with significant defenders), then hit the Byzantines, and return to my realm via the Dnieper. This requires a pretty big armada for the viking ages, but if you need to get gamey you can split your ships until a small portion of them has all the gold and send it home by itself - leaving the others ready to load up again.

 

[Kumicho]

You can also split up your levies and have multiple sieges going so you fill up your ships faster.

I generally have 2 armies raiding different provinces adjacent to the same sea tile. Pillaging all the holdings of these 2 counties will fill up your first initial 15 ship fleet with loot. Then while my levies siege the next two counties my ships drop off the loot and are back before the siege is done. Rinse. Repeat.

This, exactly. One other thing I do is to get 2-3 raiding parties of at least 550 men (I think? 600?), since that allows for the maximum looting speed. Target small entities such as single-counties, small duchies, etc where all of the land is accessible by water. Double-check to make sure they're not at war (which means they've raised their troops and can come back to kill you), and then have your troops land in all of the counties simultaneously. Click the army (next to the ships), right-click on one of the counties. Then select (mouse drag) your armies, pick one and right-click on the second county. Do this for each so that there is a raiding party heading to each county, and it doesn't matter how powerful the duchy is since he won't raise troops while you're in his province.

Loot everything that's not protected, and then move on.

You will gain a TON of money doing this...

 

[CannotresistDLC]

500 maximizes raiding speed.

I rarely find that raid targets at war will march back to run off my raiders - even less often in time to stop them from taking all the free loot.

Also, it helps greatly to pause the game before disembarking your 500-unit stacks of raiders to each county (and make sure no Organizer/Administrator leaders are in charge!) so that they all hit the beaches at the same time in realms where you can't cover all of their provinces: the AI won't immediately raise its levies to run you off (unless you've very recently raided said AI realm or, perhaps, when someone else just has - I'm a little hazy on the specifics), so you can usually take 3/4 or more of the 'free' loot before any armies heads towards your raiders.. and usually they won't march towards all of them at once, so you can often just recall one raiding party and let the others have time to finish looting.

If using retinues to raid, I recommend keeping an Organizer available (well... having an Organizer available is always recommended, but still...). Always check to see when an army marching into your raiders' province is going to arrive - sometimes (albeit rarely) they can start marching and arrive in the coastal province before your raiders can embark. This is when you switch in the Organizer. He'll either get to the boats before the enemy army reaches the province, or at the very least minimize the (again, expensive) losses of your retinues as they retreat. Or, I guess, if you're using a Defensive/Pikemen retinue, you could just kick their arses if you think you can do that with fewer losses.


X2 on this sentiment:

You will gain a TON of money doing this...

At Emperor of Scandinavia level I think I was able to bring in about 500 gold a year with only my retinues (and a significant portion of my personal fleet) running around - and only in one group, hitting the high notes. If I broke them all up into 500 unit stacks and struck every coastal county I could get away with, I think I could manage 750/year. This would be even higher if the Rome's primary holding and second holding hadn't become castles (he still hasn't evicted his Reformed Germanic temple vassals...) and had the Byzantines not taken Venice.

 

[Rascar Capac]

I use vassal troops for raiding. They pay the upkeep, while you get the loot.

Curiously, I've noticed in current campaign that my vassals, despite being reformed, don't care even if I keep their levies for eternity as long as there is siege going on. They do complain while marching and warring, though.

 

[Thrake]

I rarely find that raid targets at war will march back to run off my raiders - even less often in time to stop them from taking all the free loot.

They certainly do... I also notice them doing it when I'm at war against the AI; it seems to almost always go out of his way just to get rid of a few raiders even if it means loosing a war or mobilizing 8k troops to beat 300 measly raiders.

 

[Heinrich4]

Oh and make sure your ruler gets the Viking trait if you're Germanic! You need to have him heading the raiding army and then complete the siege of a holding. You don't always get it right away, but it's fairly easy to get.

Not true, unless they changed it in the last 2 month. You will get the viking trait even when not leading the army.

 

[Harassercat]

Not true, unless they changed it in the last 2 month. You will get the viking trait even when not leading the army.

Really? Must be coincidence and confirmation bias on my part then. Could swear that I've never gained it except when leading the army.

 

[Heinrich4]

Really? Must be coincidence and confirmation bias on my part then. Could swear that I've never gained it except when leading the army.

on_loot_settlement = {
random_events = {
5 = TOG.3300
5 = TOG.3301
5 = TOG.3302
5 = TOG.3303
35 = TOG.3320
250 = 0
}
}

# Viking Trait Gained
character_event = {
id = TOG.3320
desc = EVTDESC_TOG_3320
picture = GFX_evt_vikings_arriving_oldgods
border = GFX_event_normal_frame_war

hide_from = yes

is_triggered_only = yes

min_age = 16
only_men = yes
capable_only = yes
prisoner = no

trigger = {
has_dlc = "The Old Gods"
NOT = { trait = viking }
OR = {
religion = norse_pagan
religion = norse_pagan_reformed
}
}

option = {
name = EVTOPTA_TOG_3320
add_trait = viking
}
}

Basically there is a 11% chance to get the viking trait after looting if you are male, at least 16 years old and with norse religion. Doesnt matter if you are leading the raiding party.

 

[Zyzyfer]

What I noticed so far playing a viking is that maintenance of ships and levies exceeds loot income, and sailing out with enough soldiers to raid a lucrative catholic province become meaningless due to it.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Yeah gone are those days where one could as a lowly vassal of a Jarl get access to viking longships pre viking age, go on adventures and bring back 750 ducats per raid before any of the other vikings got access to longships.
As the current game stands, those Anglo-Saxon bastards over at Ængland are as poor as we are, and sailing over to Constantinople or middle east just ain't profitable until you gain Emperor/King status & can field large retinues, but by then the game is already over, you have won and all that's left is mopping up.
Sadly, I am really not enjoying the game as much as I used to.

 

[Nuklearius]

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