Isn't Italy a bit TOO bad?

[GrounchoVilla]

Ironman Mexico game, I'm hardly a veteran player, and me and my commie Argentinian and Chilean allies have already liberated 2/3 of Italy in July 1943. We just wiped out over 100,000 axis soldiers in that encirclement.

I think the issue with Italy is the AI is really, really bad at defending Sardinia. I snagged it because I was going for that sunset invasion achievement, and there were no soldiers, naval bombers or fighters defending the island at all. Argentina then used it to land on Rome in 1942 and GG Italy. Mussolini is holed up in Genoa now. Ironically Italy was doing really well until this point.

Historically, Italy was the weak link of the Axis, but it wasn't this awful. Its soldiers were brave if poorly led. I think the AI should cover the islands a bit better, and perhaps it will get some NFs that will help if it's ever redone

 

[XselenS]

Totally agree. Historically Italy was no where near as terrible as an AI lead Italy in HOI4. I also believe this is due to the AI handling provinces not directly linked to the mainland poorly. The AI tends to throw their navies against an Allied onslaught too early as well. Historically the Axis navies spent most of their time in ports unless there was an easy battle predicted.

 

[Tsavong]

Thats true, but not Italy specific.
Ai is not only bad defending sardinia but defending every coast. Just try to conquer England its easy too.

 

[XselenS]

Thats true, but not Italy specific.
Ai is not only bad defending sardinia but defending every coast. Just try to conquer England its easy too.

Exactly. Japan suffers the same fate with it's colonial holdings after DOW. As does Britain, France and I suspect any other seafaring nation.

 

[GrounchoVilla]

Totally agree. Historically Italy was no where near as terrible as an AI lead Italy in HOI4. I also believe this is due to the AI handling provinces not directly linked to the mainland poorly. The AI tends to throw their navies against an Allied onslaught too early as well. Historically the Axis navies spent most of their time in ports unless there was an easy battle predictes.

yes. In most games, they lose Libya in the beginning because they don't have many men (they didn't this game, they actually took the ME as well as snagging Greece on their own). Between the AI's idiocy on guarding the island provinces and North Africa, their inability to keep their fleet and airforce to defend their coast, and America's obsession with lobbing marines at any unguarded stretch of coastline, Italy is more of a liability to the Axis than anything half the time.

What I thought was funny about this game was it was basically a minor power and a generic country tag teaming Italy that brought it down

 

[GrounchoVilla]

Exactly. Japan suffers the same fate with it's colonial holdings after DOW. As does Britain, France and I suspect any other seafaring nation.

In another game (I think I was spain) the US AI naval invaded Japan and took Tokyo and most of the home islands in 1942.

 

[Fulmen]

This is an AI issue, not an Italy issue. Italy itself is far stronger in the game than historically.

EDIT: I suppose it's a sandbox vs. realism issue as well, as supplying naval invasions is laughably quick and easy in the game vs. how it is in real-life, leading to invasion spam.

 

[Leinad965]

Italy in game usually conquers half of France, Yugoslavia and Greece and sometimes north Africa (sometimes not). That is FAR better, than historical performance

 

[XselenS]

Italy in game usually conquers half of France, Yugoslavia and Greece and sometimes north Africa (sometimes not). That is FAR better, than historical performance

It is a hit or miss though. There is absolutely no consistency in how AI Italy plays. It seems to be a dice roll. AI Germany will consistently take out France and Poland and hold Europe until they end up fighting a two front war. When fighting on two fronts against the Soviets and a D Day ally invasion Germany consistently loses, as it should. They will consistently win though if they manage to knock out the Soviets. If the AI could handle naval issues and off mainland provinces then you could end up with a consistent game lest the player become involved as a minor.

As others have stated, this is definitely an AI issue. Hopefully the next major patch addresses this as it did for Germany with DoD. I have also seen Japan faring much worse against China in my last 5-10 games consistently. Even going so far as being knocked out of mainland Asia by 1940. This is not historical and for the most part no player intervention happened. At times I sent an attache to Japan, yet they fared worse. This could be due to giving up a portion of their army XP, however the organization boost should have proven to be significant. It did not.

 

[kettyo]

These issues are all related to theater and front management AI shortcomings. Certainly these will be tweaked on. It's a very difficult task for a game of this complexity and volatility.

Edit: The weight of core area defense should certainly be increased.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Of all the ludicrous things Italy does in-game, by far the most funny is Italy losing North Africa in the first couple months of the war but then holding out in Ethiopia and winning there, pushing back up into Egypt while supplying their troops i don't know how, i guess transporting supplies through German-occupied France and sailing all the way around Africa.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Of all the ludicrous things Italy does in-game, by far the most funny is Italy losing North Africa in the first couple months of the war but then holding out in Ethiopia and winning there, pushing back up into Egypt while supplying their troops i don't know how, i guess transporting supplies through German-occupied France and sailing all the way around Africa.

Historically the UK did supply all their troops in Egypt all the way around Africa, so it is theoretically possible.

 

[Cheesecakeczar]

Oddly I often see them win in Africa.

 

[XselenS]

Historically the UK did supply all their troops in Egypt all the way around Africa, so it is theoretically possible.

There is no way the Italians could have supplied their Ethiopian armies by going around Africa past Gibraltar. The British were uncontested at sea.

 

[Earl Grey Tea]

Italy is very long due a rework. Not only are they amongst the worst nations in the game, they have the smallest focus tree in the game, with the exception of the generic tree. Yet that tree has more options than the current Italian one.

 

[Earl Grey Tea]

Thats true, but not Italy specific.
Ai is not only bad defending sardinia but defending every coast. Just try to conquer England its easy too.

Same with Japan.
Japan is an odd one though. Sometimes invading them is as easy as breathing yet sometimes you want to kill yourself due to all the spam attacks pushing you off. No inbetween,

Yet the UK it is insanely easy. no matter where in the game since all their troops are in the sea somewhere.

 

[--Yigito123--]

There is no way the Italians could have supplied their Ethiopian armies by going around Africa past Gibraltar. The British were uncontested at sea.

Well, Italy also can't supply Ethiopia that way in-game... If the British actually bother stationing ships anywhere on the path around Africa, which the AI often doesn't.

 

[lonewolf371]

These issues are all related to theater and front management AI shortcomings. Certainly these will be tweaked on. It's a very difficult task for a game of this complexity and volatility.

Edit: The weight of core area defense should certainly be increased.

100% this. Kind of absurd how it easy it is to attack core areas because the only thing that matters to the AI is provinces along a front.

 

[Premu]

Of all the ludicrous things Italy does in-game, by far the most funny is Italy losing North Africa in the first couple months of the war but then holding out in Ethiopia and winning there, pushing back up into Egypt while supplying their troops i don't know how, i guess transporting supplies through German-occupied France and sailing all the way around Africa.

I just experienced that in my UK game.

Libya fell in no time and was quickly overrun by both French an my troops.

But winning in East Africa was hard work. Somehow their troops didn't starve out. The many mountains in this region made battles very bloody. I had subs on convoy rading duty in the red sea, and somehow Italian convoys still arrived.

Regarding the AIs weakness in defending Italy - I think that is mostly caused by its geography. It's a very long coastline to defend. The "boot" also gives plenty of opportunites to encircle troops by breakthroughs at the coast which can quickly lead to cauldrons in the middle.

 

[Flipity]

Have you tried increasing Italy's Custom Settings? I'm playing a US game and Italy has pretty much removed UK from Africa. Yes, its not so much a AI improvement as a stat improvement, but it does have an effect on the game.