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mackwolfe

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The 1550's: Stingy warscore

The last chapter saw annexation of many English provinces, leaving them as a rump state. A coalition war resulted, and my ally France had just signed a separate peace, leaving Atlantis on its own versus the coalition. My aim in that war was to take Crete from Venice. FOr that I needed warscore to overcome the -30 "coalition war " malus when negotiating. So first I needed some battles to get to +10 WS and get the ticking wargoal bonus started. I manage to get a little bit from naval battles, as my privateering fleets bump into enemy squadrons, but the big break comes when East Frisia lands a stack in Bermuda and I manage to stackwipe it:
px81rGa.png

(screenshot of WS accumulation that eventually triggers the ticking wargoal for "show superiority". Insets show naval battles using privateers)

By the time Crete falls in 1552, we have 27% WS:
9BKPZXi.png

(screenshot of fall of Crete , with inset showing we have ticking warscore in addition to some battle warscore).

But even with that, it was not enough. And even after I recover Bermuda island from a Savoyard expedition, and destroy them in the process , and get WS to +39%, the Pope remains obstinate:
jSePFRl.png

(screenshot showing difficulty in getting Crete ceded despite WS. But we are getting close)

ANd so I persist, and follow atwix's advice to blockade the Pope's ports. And finally, a year later, he agrees to let Venice give up Crete:
rudSVUb.png

(screenshot of peace with coalition - we finally get Crete!. Note my spy network at 19 in Knights . )

Was the 4 year wait worth it for Crete? I think so. Because otherwise , I would need a no CB war or Imperialism to get to the Eastern Mediterrnean. And I don't waste any time in exploiting my new province, having a spy network already built in Rhodes . I fabricate on the Knights immediately, and after a brief delay putting down rebels in Scotland, it is DOW time :

fW2BgI1.png

(DOW on the Knights, allied to Venice and their league. Inset shows Aragon rebelling against Castile [Aragon is supported by France]. Second inset shows my choices for Rivals. I am insulted by this. Bohemia? I was expecting Ottomans or France as candidates. Austria? Ok it is the emperor. But Bohemia? come on!)

The war with the Knights is another case of an easy war on the military front, but difficult peace on the warscore front. It is very simple to siege and capture the city of Rhodes itself. But knocking out their allies to isolate them was not so simple. At first I try blockading Venice to white peace them, but it is still too early. Then the Pope decides to dogpile the Venetians and I take advantage by capturing Venice first:
9NK6cfF.png

(situation after 3 years of war. I occupy two islands, but cannot get either one in the peace- yet)

As I settle down for a long war waiting for peace modifiers to tick down, the Pope gives me a very nice assist. He makes peace with Venice taking away a good chunk of their land. After that , the percent of their land that I occupy becomes so high that I can peace them out separately:
qC97FDo.png

(screenshot of separate peace giving us the island of Venice )
And with Venice out of the war, the Knights now surrender:
zts3BCV.png

(screenshot of peace with the Knights . We get Rhodes and lots of money. Inset shows we took immediate advantage of Venice's annexation to raid the Adriatic for slaves and money . Second inset shows Aragon gaining its freedom)

The annexation of Rhodes removes a key raiding competitor. Now I am the only one able to raid Constantinople and Egypt. I still need to figure out how to knock out the Tunisians and Moroccans so I have exclusive raiding rights in the western mediterranean.

And this brings us to 1560. I had spent the decade in continuous war in the mediterranean. ANd I only annexed 3 small islands. But their strategic locations more than make up for their tiny size. I had saved myself a no-CB war ( come to think of it, I have only used this once, on Ireland in the 1450's). And I can raid Constantinople , Egypt and the entire Italian coast .

It is time to take stock of the situation. On the money front, monthly income is OK. Sometimes I ran a surplus ( if all fleets are privateering), other times deficists. But we have huge treasury thanks to raiding:
Bz0OzTO.png


As for tech, we have fallen behind on ADM and DIP due to poor king stats on the former, and finishing the Maritime group on the latter:
f7GZsrB.png

As I post this, I realize I should have abdicated my King 7 years ago. Is it still worth doing?

Here is a view of military and world power rankings:
QcB8Q7s.png

Atlantis is now #3 GP. We are first in navy. But lag in army:
Kdg7Xbs.png



Finally, we are already at 80 provinces. Thanks to @Tom D. nice map, we can see our progress :
xkYP6W2.png

Plenty left to colonize and conquer.

As for strategy, I am now starting to bump into Ottomans. They hold several islands in Greece, as well as Hormuz:
DWLaFL0.png


I can chose to attack them soon, or wait till later. I have an easy war coming up against an isolated England . There is also Denmark on whom I have a CB. I can attack Ottos after dealing with those. Or I can even secure all of Indonesia and/or Japan first, then deal with the green blob.
 

stnylan

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I suppose the question is do you think the Ottos are likely to be a tougher nut to crack in the future than now. Or go now on the basis it might make things harder for them for a bit - maintain balance of power idea.
 

mackwolfe

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Or go now on the basis it might make things harder for them for a bit - maintain balance of power idea.

If I ignore them for now, I will continue my "cold war" on them with my privateers in their node.

I think getting the islands from them is not too hard. It is notching them down so they become an invalid rival that will be difficult. I cannot let them grow too big.

But the sooner I hit them, the more cores I can release from them. Late game, it becomes hard to release nations.
 

firezatswill9

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If you hit them, you need to hit them so hard that they cannot recover. Which means 100% WS peace deal. Fortunately, with your navy, trapping them on Chios or the like should be just a matter of luring their army there, and sieging up the other side of the crossing before they get back.

Byzantium's cores should be expiring in 20-40 years, depending on when they got eaten, and they're a decent power to release, since they take both religious AND admin ideas, making them an ideal vassal.

Most of the turkish minors have few cores, so I'm not sure as to how they'd work as released nations. If you want to kill the Ottomans and keep them down for good, hitting them sooner would be best, due to your "island only" rule. Otherwise, get client states and feed them the land you can't take.
 

atwix

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As I post this, I realize I should have abdicated my King 7 years ago. Is it still worth doing?

nope. stack prestige.

oh, and go for spice islands first. and Japan. especially if the latter isn't united and lagging in tech.

you should also go for the islands around malacca strait, before they all become tributary of ming.
 

Tom D.

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K52pXGu.png

(third coalition war declaration - coinciding with outbreak of a serious English rebellion in London with a 28K stack)
Oh my, lucky for you that you only have islands, a normal continental country would suffer so hard.

Again, France takes the brunt of the fighting as I sit on my comfy islands. ANd this time, thanks to my much higher naval force limit now, I have enough ships to prevent anyone from landing in America.

Lc6usI3.png
I would almost feel sorry for France, but... NO!

Was the 4 year wait worth it for Crete? I think so. Because otherwise , I would need a no CB war or Imperialism to get to the Eastern Mediterrnean. And I don't waste any time in exploiting my new province, having a spy network already built in Rhodes . I fabricate on the Knights immediately, and after a brief delay putting down rebels in Scotland, it is DOW time :

fW2BgI1.png
Do you have that little island from Tunis already? If they're getting DOW'd from all sides it could be an easy land grab.
 

mackwolfe

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Fortunately, with your navy, trapping them on Chios or the like should be just a matter of luring their army there, and sieging up the other side of the crossing before they get back.

Good tip. With a good maneuver pip general, it can be be pulled off I guess.

But I doubt I will be taking them on right now. I played most of the new decade. As you will see, adding more AE to new religious groups may not be advisable at the moment. I have found that defending true islands is easy. But defending islands connected by straits is trickier. Venice is basically requiring a constant stationary squadron guard to avoid it falling in enemy hands . Defending straits is easy when enemy has few ships. But if I add Ottomans to basically all of Europe in a coalition war, then my naval dominance may not be as secure.
 

mackwolfe

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oh, and go for spice islands first. and Japan. especially if the latter isn't united and lagging in tech.
Good suggestion. I was wondering where to go next. Currently my economic base is not strong enough to maintain a big land army . I doubt I will be landing on the European continent anytime soon.

Japan is now split between Ando and Hosokawa straight down the middle. I think I will eventually state up Japan. Currently I have no state slots open. I will need 1 for Wessex, and one for Denmark. But If eat into Japan, I may get Empire rank and obtain the necessary states that way.
 

mackwolfe

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Do you have that little island from Tunis already? If they're getting DOW'd from all sides it could be an easy land grab.

Not yet. You are right , I should grab Djerba soon. I will need to hurry and fabricate on them before Ottos take it.
Oh my, lucky for you that you only have islands, a normal continental country would suffer so hard.

One challenge here is that I don't think I can get a viable vassal on the mainland without them becoming my Achilles heel. I will need to wait for AE in Europe to die down before I can think about vassalizing anyone on the continent ( think Hannover and England in 18th century).
 

Tom D.

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One challenge here is that I don't think I can get a viable vassal on the mainland without them becoming my Achilles heel. I will need to wait for AE in Europe to die down before I can think about vassalizing anyone on the continent ( think Hannover and England in 18th century).
As you're going to have quite some tradepower in Lübeck it would be logic to have a vassal in that tradenode, maybe Lübeck or another trade nation there?
 

firezatswill9

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What you could do, for having a vassal/march on the mainland that isn't a weak link, is put them on scutage, and have them core land that you take. Obviously, there'd be a small period of time where you'd have the land before you give it to them, so I don't know if that'd go against the spirit of your run or not. But, if you get them big enough to have a substantial army, you could take them off scutage and they could make for a powerful "ally".
 

mackwolfe

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As you're going to have quite some tradepower in Lübeck it would be logic to have a vassal in that tradenode, maybe Lübeck or another trade nation there?

Eventually yes. Lubeck would be a good one. But right now, I have such high AE in Europe that anything I hold - directly or indirectly - on the mainland is at risk of being overrun by a coalition war.
 

mackwolfe

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Obviously, there'd be a small period of time where you'd have the land before you give it to them,
I can do "Transfer occupation" during wartime. This avoids having me having to annex mainland provinces. Or I can bend my rule about not annexing ( when I initially wrote the rule about annex only temporarily, I was thinking of this scenario. but then alexti talked me out of even that temporary exception).

But transfer occupation is not a problem. If I never owned or cored the mainland province, it doesn't count.

Wonder who would make a good vassal in this scenario. Someone not too large, but has good income and trade power. I will need to worry about LD and not having their independence get supported by the other powers.
 

firezatswill9

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That really depends on where you are. For north Germany, Prussia/Brandenburg is your best choice. Can't beat having space marines on your side!

For the french area, I'm partial to Hainaut or Normandy, but most any nation would work. I don't think any of them have better ideas than the other.

For Russia, Smolensk is an excellent choice. God Tier siege ideas, and not a half bad army to boot. But, they are rather deep inland, so getting their cores may be difficult, if not impossible at this point.

For India/Asia, Nepal is pretty much the Prussia of the region, but it might be some work to get to them, since they're in the Himalayas.

Those would be my choices for those areas, other regions I can't talk much about. I usually just focus on getting vassals that don't have increased core cost ideas, and have good idea sets (Admin+Religious). Hope that helps a bit!
 

mackwolfe

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1560's: WAR! WAR! endless WAR!

The last decade saw us grab Crete from a coalition war , and then Venice and Rhodes. I start to prepare for the truce expiring with England, when the Commonwealth declares WAR! on us :
OqqcZcg.png

(DOW of Commonwealth on Atlantis + France. Inset shows France getting the papal bonus for colonizing Colombia, which is within my raiding range)
Aragon, who recently gained independence with French help are now fighting their previous benefactors. This would have been an interesting land power (PLC) vs land power (FRA) fight, except that the French are heavily outnumbered.

Soon after , my lousy-stats King Balder dies and his son Skorver 5/5/4 takes over. The new MIL rating allows me to take the "Enlist Privateers" option. This trades some worse relations for +25% privateer. Fits nicely with the Viking raiding theme.
M2Q4maa.png

(screenshot of new King, inset shows policies that I chose to increase my naval power and choice of deity . Focus is on Diplo and may well stay there for the duration of campaign. Note Atlantis colonies in Philippines )
The ascension of the king allows the choice of a deity and I go for Snotra again, and I think I will stay on this deity for the duration of campaign. I will be doing many buildings ( mostly Shipyards to increase force limits) and a tech discount is always helpful. In a typical WC or blobbing run, the coring discount from Odin would be the obvious choice, but not in this run.

The war with the PLC follows the now familiar pattern of France getting clobbered by the enemy land force, while I mainly fight naval battles. But in May 1561, I have to make a decision when the truce with England expires:
XPK1EIY.png

(screenshot of English truce expiring - insets show minimal involvement on my part in the coalition war)

Despite being "involved" in a major war, I go for the DOW on England fearing they would join the coalition. And I am glad I did, because a month later a bunch of truces from an old coalition wars expire, and a new coalition starts to form:
aN4ReeK.png

(DOW on England, a month before a bunch of truces expire and another coalition forms)

THe war with England goes well. Their army is stackwiped and their capital taken. And then it is WAR! :
LkM97Ah.png

(screenshot of successful war with England rudely interrupted by His Holiness. This is the THIRD(!) punitive war by the pontiff- he really must hate the Norse )

France does join in this war, despite being clobbered in the other one. In fact, they were getting so clobbered, that I manage to release several of their nations in a peace treaty with Poland , as previously suggested by @firezatswill9 :
8uA4FzW.png

(peace with PLC-led coalition war , forcing France to give up 3 nations)
I was hoping this peace would drop my AE with the other European nations. But it does not. France's however, is zero when I check it. I think this was patched sometime ago, and only nations gaining/losing land get the AE delta now.

A year later, I finally kick England off the British Isles:
BT4rw7G.png

(screenshot of England being exiled from Europe - they move their Capital to South Africa. Inset shows the annexation earning us the rivalry of the PLC. Note France getting overrun by the Pope-led coalition now)

The annexation puts me temporarily over 100% OE, as the cores in Venice and Rhodes were delayed by rebels.
I don't get to savor my victory for long before it is another WAR!:
YMSTmW4.png

(screenshot of Sweden declaring yet another coalition WAR! . Inset shows France abdandoning our alliance, and relations are now negative without the alliance bonus, essentially ending my French friendship forever. Adieu! Second inset shows the use of a single squadron to make raiding less tedious . Just one squadron will raid the whole world in about 2 years. Since the cooldown of raiding is 10 years, a single squadron is just as effective as many)

So now I am facing 2 coalitions wars. France is peaced out of the first one soon enough, leaving me alone in both wars, as my Golden Era expires:
bVFH0U4.png

(screenshot of end of my Golden Era as France loses another province thanks to my wars)

The two wars are essentially at a stalemate. I win some naval skirmishes, but I cannot make any inroads on land. Blockades earn me some war score, but not enough to force a white peace . I try one maneuver to gain the upper hand against Sweden, by attacking their capital via the Aland islands:
8w3uyxe.png

(screenshot of Atlantis sieging Stockholm after taking Aland islands and blockading the straits . Note France joining coalition AGAINST us now that we are not allies anymore)

My maneuver on Stockholm is ultimately unsuccessful, because even though I capture their capital, the WS is still too low to demand anything:
5HKunkq.png

(screenshot of Stockholm in our hands, yet WS is stubbornly low - Note the enemy stack barreling down on Stockholm. I withdraw on the ships just in time ).l Inset shows another declaration of coalition WAR! . This time by France)

After the Stockholm disappointment, I realize I have not been clearly thinking about managing the coalition wars. I am not used to fighting such wars and my instinct is to usually force a defeat on the enemy. But here, I should just accept the fact that I will be at war and only try to force peace only if I get the right conditions.

so this is my plan going forward:

- accept the fact that I will be at war for a long time. Challenges here would be war exhaustion does not go down, autonomy ticks down slower, and I cannot ally other nations. BUt otherwise, I can ignore being at war.
- gather all my fleets into big stacks to avoid the occasional minor naval loss ( costs WS)
-do NOT try to land in Europe. Risk of losing a battle and WS as a result is high . Do not bother defending Venice
-do stackwipes of any enemy marine expeditions that venture onto the islands.
-hunt in colonial regions for any enemy stacks that can be stackwiped for WS
-once ticking WS is achieved in any war, wait till "length of war" malus dissipates, then make an offensive play. And be ready to make peace immediately.
-fortify Bermuda. I usually do not fortify my capital. But here it is a nice magnet for enemy stacks, and the longer it holds, the longer I have time to land and be defender.
-do not let enemy occupy my provinces to avoid war exhaustion
-continue expanding in Asia by colonizing. I cannot spare warships or army troops there


This is the current war situation:
YAo4jgj.png

While I was busy near Stockholm, I had allowed my caribbean provinces and capital to get occupied, raising my exhaustion. But I am close to ticking WS triggering with Sweden. I have also seen a couple of nations in the Pope's coalition ask for white peace ( Mantua and Savoy). So there is hope for these wars to end.

To avoid closing on down note, here is the situation in Asia:
ay4gzAY.jpg

I am colonizing the Philippines ( staying out of the way of the other powers to avoid war ) . I have assigned all eligible provinces to trade companies to minimize unrest. My only colonizer competition now is Ottomans (near Sumatra) and English ( in Mahe). I don't mind England colonizing for me. I can easily take those colonies later. Ottomans is another story, though.
 
Last edited:

alexti

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I wonder, do you really need to cause all those coalitions? They seem to be causing tons of micro. I would think that with only island objectives you could comfortable achieve them without ever going over AE threshold. But that's me - I don't find coalitions useful and prefer to avoid them :)