Is THIS what really causes the million rebel problem?

[Arilou]

Regarding the much ballyhooed rebel bugfix.

No, it will not prevent rebels from spawning. If it did, there wouldn't be any reason for rebels to be in the game. All I can tell you is that in 4 days of play since I implemented the change in my files, I have not had a repeat of rebel spam ever. I have had rebels. I've had nationalists, pan-nationalists, Jacobins, anarcho-liberals and I'm pretty sure I saw teabaggers once, but I played vanilla enough to know the difference between normal rebels and buggy rebels and that old problem is not reoccurring for me. Further, just to make sure, I have been playing on a build that is vanilla in all respects but for 2 bugfixes and 1 single adjustment of the production line (which if anything should lead to more unrest not less). The 1.2 patch can put this to rest and meanwhile you guys' feedback could help to verify. If you'd like to try the changes I referred to, here is my mod.

Btw, thanks for all the kind things people said about me upthread. I was just going through the files and using notepad++ to count the brackets for the popmod boys. Whenever I found an odd number, I would search through the file for the missing bracket. No big thing.




Dude, you didn't even know it was a bug when I showed it to you. I don't know much about lua, but come on...

I still have rebels spawning about every month or so, the difference is largely that rather than spawning 30-40 brigades they spawn 9-12 brigades. (i've been playing straight vanilla with edited rebel_typs.

This is, if anything, the wrong direction (seems the idea is to have fewer rebellions than the endless whack-a-rebel of previous Paradox games, but instead making general revolts far more deadly and likely to result in the overthrow of your government)

I still have to kill about a 100k rebels every month in a 4 million country.

 

[Sarayakat]

I still have rebels spawning about every month or so, the difference is largely that rather than spawning 30-40 brigades they spawn 9-12 brigades. (i've been playing straight vanilla with edited rebel_typs.

This is, if anything, the wrong direction (seems the idea is to have fewer rebellions than the endless whack-a-rebel of previous Paradox games, but instead making general revolts far more deadly and likely to result in the overthrow of your government)

I still have to kill about a 100k rebels every month in a 4 million country.

I agree about the whack-a-rebel thing. I wish they could make rebels spawn with full organization since right now if you have 2 or 3 regiments within 10 provinces of a rebellion you are pretty much safe from harm. I wonder at it when the AI fails to quash these. Were the troops on leave? Strangely, in my games I have had the bigger/fewer rebellions. Maybe it has to do with playstyle and choice of countries? I've tested on the US, Ottos, Japan, France and Sweden so far and it's usually England and central Europe where I see rebelions running amok. Perhaps it's time for a Prussia game.

Anyway, this time I really am going to step away to play as I feel like this has degenerated into controversy and I had not meant it to.

 

[playerdepain77]

Ive been playing as Prussia (forming a very conservative NGF). It is the midst of the liberal revolution (around 1850) and i have had very few uprisings. There are only about 60K jacobins (and that number just escalated due to my very anti-liberal policies... it was at only like 300 for a while). And even when they do revolt, only like 10K revolt in central locations. I think we have a fix!

(at this point in vanilla, i will probably be having swarms of rebels)

 

[Chicken]

I'm in 1852 with Sardinia Piedmont, and I've only had one revolt, which happened because I intentionally drove up my militancy through events so I could push through some voting reforms (of which I got 2 passed). The real test is around 1880-1900 when the truly massive revolts started to happen. So we'll see. So far, I'm not sure anything is really different.

 

[Lodestar78]

People, you do realize your political and economic choices will also contribute to rebel spam in your own countries?

Any country that has high unemployment, bad reform history and poor econic policy is simply going to continue to have rebel growth. I can control their frequency in my own country by managing my pops and reforms, and choosing my soldier types from loyal pops so that when I do get rebellions they are seldom of any size or frequency.

The correction does change seem to change worldwide rebel growth patterns and quantities to a be more manageble for the AI from what I've seen so far.

But it won't make them go away, the 19th century was a century of violent change.

 

[Warvick]

People, you do realize your political and economic choices will also contribute to rebel spam in your own countries?

Any country that has high unemployment, bad reform history and poor econic policy is simply going to continue to have rebel growth. I can control their frequency in my own country by managing my pops and reforms, and choosing my soldier types from loyal pops so that when I do get rebellions they are seldom of any size or frequency.

The correction does change seem to change worldwide rebel growth patterns and quantities to a be more manageble for the AI from what I've seen so far.

But it won't make them go away, the 19th century was a century of violent change.

Finally someone said it, if you crush liberals, favor capis and in general increase con from events YOU will have REBELS. Its better to choose options like militancy instead of con and take out a couple of thousands then a billions rebels every year. Also a tip: go culture for more NF and use it for clergy.

 

[unmerged(209265)]

Thank you to whoever found the bug but I am one of the victoria gamers who is not quite familiar with modding the game files so is there a way that someone could perhaps explain the rebel fix for me?

 

[Gaius Marius I]

Thank you to whoever found the bug but I am one of the victoria gamers who is not quite familiar with modding the game files so is there a way that someone could perhaps explain the rebel fix for me?

Basically, if you download the the rebel_types file posted, you simply go to where the original file is located in the game, and copy/paste the new fixed one there, which will overwrite the original.

 

[dr_AllCOM3]

The rebel spam is so damn annoying, I don't want to play this game anymore.

 

[Kazmir]

I agree about the whack-a-rebel thing. I wish they could make rebels spawn with full organization since right now if you have 2 or 3 regiments within 10 provinces of a rebellion you are pretty much safe from harm. I wonder at it when the AI fails to quash these. Were the troops on leave? Strangely, in my games I have had the bigger/fewer rebellions. Maybe it has to do with playstyle and choice of countries? I've tested on the US, Ottos, Japan, France and Sweden so far and it's usually England and central Europe where I see rebelions running amok. Perhaps it's time for a Prussia game.

Anyway, this time I really am going to step away to play as I feel like this has degenerated into controversy and I had not meant it to.

The problem with colonial powers is, that they usually station big portion of their army in overseas territories and use obscure amount of troops when conquering small, uncivilized nations.

 

[jdrou]

I believe Paradox use a programme which writes all the files for them. (Due to numerous errors and repeats which wouldn't be there if a human did them)

You do mean the other way around, right?

That depends on the type of error. Some types are far more likely to come from a bugged automated process (same bug repeated in multiple locations) and others are more likely to come from mistakes in manual processes.

 

[PiIsExactly3]

People, you do realize your political and economic choices will also contribute to rebel spam in your own countries?

Any country that has high unemployment, bad reform history and poor econic policy is simply going to continue to have rebel growth. I can control their frequency in my own country by managing my pops and reforms, and choosing my soldier types from loyal pops so that when I do get rebellions they are seldom of any size or frequency.

The correction does change seem to change worldwide rebel growth patterns and quantities to a be more manageble for the AI from what I've seen so far.

But it won't make them go away, the 19th century was a century of violent change.

So as the US I literally spent the last 2 hours of my play time putting down nonstop rebellions. Of course I can't make any reforms because overall militancy is very low. Also a majority, poor, middle, and rich strata are getting their luxury needs because taxes are low and tarrifs are set to zero. Seriously, my country is by far the most prosperous it's ever been.

Do you consider that working as designed?

 

[Chicken]

So as the US I literally spent the last 2 hours of my play time putting down nonstop rebellions. Of course I can't make any reforms because overall militancy is very low. Also a majority, poor, middle, and rich strata are getting their luxury needs because taxes are low and tarrifs are set to zero. Seriously, my country is by far the most prosperous it's ever been.

Do you consider that working as designed?

I totally agree with you. I'm trying to give back any money I make to the people, but no matter what I do, I'm flooded with rebels, when really, said rebels only represent a minuscule portion of the population that isn't getting its needs.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

May I pose a question, please, for those of you testing whether solving the "bracket error" really has an effect on the number of rebels spawned?

The question is this: If what I posted above about how the game engine "reads" a syntax error is correct, then when the error is present in rebel_types.txt it ought to be cranking out fewer rebels, not more. This is because (again, if I am correct) from the point of the error onward to the end of the file the engine reads only gibberish. So all rebel types from the Boxers down to the end of the file, including Jacobins, Italian Redshirts, and Indian Sepoys ought to be absent. Is that wrong? Are you sure that those rebel types were springing up before you installed the corrected file?

Actually, there's another thing about this that strikes me as a kind of odd, which is this: If one of those text files is corrupt, it ought to be generating lines in the error log. This is what has happened when I have previously made similar mistakes in modifying files for HOI3. And yet, when I loaded up this game, in which I haven't yet inserted the new rebel_types.txt file, the error log was as clean as could be.

So clearly I'm not getting something here. Can someone explain?
Not trying to start an argument here, I'm asking mostly out of curiosity.

 

[Archimbaud]

May I pose a question, please, for those of you testing whether solving the "bracket error" really has an effect on the number of rebels spawned?

The question is this: If what I posted above about how the game engine "reads" a syntax error is correct, then when the error is present in rebel_types.txt it ought to be cranking out fewer rebels, not more. This is because (again, if I am correct) from the point of the error onward to the end of the file the engine reads only gibberish. So all rebel types from the Boxers down to the end of the file, including Jacobins, Italian Redshirts, and Indian Sepoys ought to be absent. Is that wrong? Are you sure that those rebel types were springing up before you installed the corrected file?

Actually, there's another thing about this that strikes me as a kind of odd, which is this: If one of those text files is corrupt, it ought to be generating lines in the error log. This is what has happened when I have previously made similar mistakes in modifying files for HOI3. And yet, when I loaded up this game, in which I haven't yet inserted the new rebel_types.txt file, the error log was as clean as could be.

So clearly I'm not getting something here. Can someone explain?
Not trying to start an argument here, I'm asking mostly out of curiosity.

As far as I understand, those files are settings to create objects related to the rebel classes. The missing parenthesis causes the "boxer" object to be created with missing information. Depending on the default creator it may happen many things, but the most common would be just an object with some attributes either void or at zero value.
After that, depending on the parser, some lines can be ignored and only lines beginning with xxx_rebels are read. Thus, the rest of the file could remain still valid.
I don't think the program reads gibberish, otherwise that could provoke a lot of issues like crashes due to memory corruption inside the program. The most valid hypothsesis is considering the code is enough protected so that a corrupted part of a file not detected as it is just ignored by the code that kept dfault values. That would mean that the parenthesis issue only cause problems in the boxer_rebels object.

About logs, I don't really know which logs are activated. Besides, even if the parenthesis is not valid, it may not be well detected by the logger and the program.
So far, I can't say many things without seeing the code itself.

 

[Tamas]

May I pose a question, please, for those of you testing whether solving the "bracket error" really has an effect on the number of rebels spawned?

The question is this: If what I posted above about how the game engine "reads" a syntax error is correct, then when the error is present in rebel_types.txt it ought to be cranking out fewer rebels, not more. This is because (again, if I am correct) from the point of the error onward to the end of the file the engine reads only gibberish. So all rebel types from the Boxers down to the end of the file, including Jacobins, Italian Redshirts, and Indian Sepoys ought to be absent. Is that wrong? Are you sure that those rebel types were springing up before you installed the corrected file?

Actually, there's another thing about this that strikes me as a kind of odd, which is this: If one of those text files is corrupt, it ought to be generating lines in the error log. This is what has happened when I have previously made similar mistakes in modifying files for HOI3. And yet, when I loaded up this game, in which I haven't yet inserted the new rebel_types.txt file, the error log was as clean as could be.

So clearly I'm not getting something here. Can someone explain?
Not trying to start an argument here, I'm asking mostly out of curiosity.

No, at least Italian Redshirts were not absent. Few days ago, I removed the condition which only allowed the Redshirts to spawn in Sardinia-Piedmont (kinda crazy since they would need to take over that country, and then offer it the Italian crown. Couldnt make sense of it), and then they in the next game took over Sicily and formed Italy. Well before the bracket fix.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

As far as I understand, those files are settings to create objects related to the rebel classes. The missing parenthesis causes the "boxer" object to be created with missing information. Depending on the default creator it may happen many things, but the most common would be just an object with some attributes either void or at zero value.
After that, depending on the parser, some lines can be ignored and only lines beginning with xxx_rebels are read. Thus, the rest of the file could remain still valid.
I don't think the program reads gibberish, otherwise that could provoke a lot of issues like crashes due to memory corruption inside the program. The most valid hypothsesis is considering the code is enough protected so that a corrupted part of a file not detected as it is just ignored by the code that kept dfault values. That would mean that the parenthesis issue only cause problems in the boxer_rebels object.

About logs, I don't really know which logs are activated. Besides, even if the parenthesis is not valid, it may not be well detected by the logger and the program.
So far, I can't say many things without seeing the code itself.

Ok, I get it that the parser may be crucial in the issue of how an error is read. Thanks for this. Maybe i'll have a chance to ask one of the developers about this someday.

No, at least Italian Redshirts were not absent. Few days ago, I removed the condition which only allowed the Redshirts to spawn in Sardinia-Piedmont (kinda crazy since they would need to take over that country, and then offer it the Italian crown. Couldnt make sense of it), and then they in the next game took over Sicily and formed Italy. Well before the bracket fix.

Where is the condition that specifies where these guys spring up? I couldn't find it.

 

[Tamas]

Where is the condition that specifies where these guys spring up? I couldn't find it.

modifier = {
factor = 0
OR = {
culture_has_union_tag = no
is_cultural_union = THIS
is_greater_power = yes
NOT = { is_culture_group = THIS }
NOT = { tag = SAR }
}
}

as far as I can see, it means no way a rebellious pop would choose them as their faction if they were not living in SAR. As I said, I removed that SAR line and they appeared in the next game.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

as far as I can see, it means no way a rebellious pop would choose them as their faction if they were not living in SAR. As I said, I removed that SAR line and they appeared in the next game.

yup, got it. Thanks

 

[Garak]

Well, i didnt want to speak about it, but if the craftsmen needs werent the issue, than why fixing them fixes the game entirely? Even AIs do not seem to have so many rebels. I havent seen Russia be totaly overwhelmed by Rebels that often after i modified them. And all the others AIs i used to see. Hell, Great Britain is no longer a Jacobin heaven after i modified craftsmen's needs.

And i never had any "world market crash" either if by "world market crash" you mean a market overflooded by goods.

Lowering Craftsmen needs to levels comparable to other poor Pops does not solve the rebel issue. I've played two games, one inmodded and one with the craftsmen tweak, and I've noticed very little difference. Perhaps a slight lessening of revolt frequency, but not enough to consider the problem "fixed".

Edit: However, I also haven't noticed a market crash to accompany this, so I'm not sure where that idea comes from.