Is this WAD? And how do deal with large foreign rebell stacks?

[Bugnr01]

Im trieing a Hisn Kayfa into Rum run. The start was good but now there are Iraqi seperatists from QQ plundering the countryside of three nations for more then 8 years. They have about 18k which is doupple the size of my Army limit and Soran and QQ also have both 8k men.
The problem is none can kill their stack but the rebells are also not able to press their claims because they are stupid sieging in three different countries and then the Land get sieged back the moment they leave.
Is this behaviour WAD or buggy?

Edit:

I want an independent Iraq but will this someone ends or do i have to merc up to the douple of my forcelimit to save the land of an enemy because the rebells are too stupid to do their job?

Rebells should prioritise the spawn country more! like just cross borders if you controll all provinces of interrest in spawn country.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Yes its one of the worst examples of current rebels and one of the reasons i absolutely loathe them.

Basically AI will never take care of them, and the only way for them to die is either if you loan/merc up and kill them yourself or if some war happens in that general area, and some major power walks their stack into those rebels.

 

[Dakka]

This is WAD. Nationalist rebels siege anything in their culture, including provinces outside of their country of origin.

They won’t go away until someone kills them. You will either have to do it yourself or wait for an AI. Alternatively, you can declare war on another country and try to get them to fight the rebels for you, then you can destroy the remains of the victor after they’ve been cut down a bit

 

[misiceman]

incendentily this is a great tactic to use on the enemy, get nationalist rebels from a handfull of provinces that will ravage your enemy's lands. One of the best export goods in game

Also you can support the rebels and they will become friendly to you. A little harder today but it still works.

 

[Bugnr01]

From a gameplay point of view its bad design. Why do i have to siege my capital back every now and then just because the Rebell Ai is not able to press their agenda (get independent), even if they have 3 times the army of their origin country nor is the origin country able to fight them (because thei army is too small) nor do they acept their defeat and acept their demands.

 

[DanubianCossak]

From a gameplay point of view its bad design. Why do i have to siege my capital back every now and then just because the Rebell Ai is not able to press their agenda (get independent), even if they have 3 times the army of their origin country nor is the origin country able to fight them (because thei army is too small) nor do they acept their defeat and acept their demands.

Both a good observation and a good question indeed. The way it works makes no sense and its definitely not fun.

Specially when you consider that in CK2 rebels actually have intelligence and behave like countries.

 

[misiceman]

because we all play by the same rules. AI and player alike. It takes x months to enforce their demands (60?)...and QQ can keep it going for a while since they can hide their troops in non iraqi land. Players and AI do this all the same. Again support the rebels and they will not siege your lands or kill them. Or you can move capital and they wont sit their siegeing and spend more time in QQ lands enforcing those demands (QQ probably unsieges while they are on your capital).

Its 60 spy network and some coin to support.

As for their behavior its quite easy to understand (now that they don't travel half the world again), Nationalists want their culture land. In this case they view your land as theirs as its the same culture. Separatists should stay to their own cores, but in this case your starting province IS an Iraqi core as well. This is one of the issues of the start, since QQ will get these rebels often. I actually dont know if they are event driven but they are there a lot.

While I may agree that rebel size can be a bit odd (ok often), and does need tweaking in some instances, to say rebel behavior makes no sense to me, doesn't make sense. In this case its QQ rebels who have a much larger force limit and they got a large rebel stack. you have an Iraqi Core, they will go there.

 

[Nuklearius]

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[DanubianCossak]

While I may agree that rebel size can be a bit odd (ok often), and does need tweaking in some instances, to say rebel behavior makes no sense to me, doesn't make sense. In this case its QQ rebels who have a much larger force limit and they got a large rebel stack. you have an Iraqi Core, they will go there.

You have a cluster of provinces with 1 culture owned by 3 different countries.

Each of those countries has 12k army.

One of those countries spawns 18k rebel stack (either through regular faction or via size 2 event).

None of those countries can defeat the rebel stack.

What happens is rebel stack will go around siege a province. Wait some days. Move onto the next province. Siege it. Wait some days. Move onto the next province. And like that forever.

AI countries will go behind the rebel stack and simply take back the captured province.

And this can go on in perpetuity.

That is a textbook example of a poorly thought out feature that isnt working in a sensible way.

The path *out* of the rebel situation, is for rebels to enforce demands. However since rebels dont seem to have AI that can go back and protect the province they had captured, you basically get a broken feature in a way.

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Another example (which im not sure still happens) would be island OPMs spawning rebels, who instantly wipe out their armies (that are on low maintenance for example) and you end up with rebels unable to siege the province, and the OPM unable to raise another army to defeat rebels, and this can go on forever.

 

[misiceman]

Kind of stupid the other way around as well. Iraqi seperatists siege down everything in Qara Qoyunlu and instead of waiting they cross the border to the Ottomans/Mamlukes and get insta-stackwiped. That was basically the only reason why it didn't die within 10 years of game start.

Rebels in general are very confusing. If I annex a country and their army become rebels, do they have my tech now?

The tech is based on the owner of the rebels, which you can see while hovering over them. Regardless of how they are formed its based on that AFAIK.

And personaly I look at the rebels as not as an army in the sense of nations. I look at it as an abstraction to the problems of raining in new territory, where the cost is manpower, money etc and the medium to which you expend that is in fighting a "rebel stack". Which is why it has your tactics, tech etc....Could be lawlessness in the area, problems integrating your system of government, whatever, its just the way the problem manifest when it gets bad enough.

To the size problems, other than when really small, early, or the HORRIBLE NED events, Its normally not that much an issue as its more just stomp, spend resources and make you have to wait to regen your army and manpower more.

HOWEVER, the issue of everything sharing your NIs and idea groups etc... has always bugged me. I just dont think there is a system to manage it properly within the game (talking about back end stuff). I have the same issues with mercs having all your NIs. In some ways I love the CK2 version of mercs because they are distinct but I dont know how you could bring that into eu4.

While certain areas like the current map changes, west africa, India, etc... there are tons of cores and tons of small cultures, and lets be fair these areas were fairly chaotic until the eventual power (which ever it is depending on region), finally managed to exert enough control and calm things down for a while.

 

[indika_tates]

Foreign rebels entering in my territory is in fact a declaration of war.

 

[Shadowstrike]

There's a separate solution: have the rebels be smart enough to understand that they have land to hold, and it is valuable to continue occupation of provinces (to be able to press demands), instead of trying to gain occupation of new lands while losing other occupied provinces...

 

[makaramus]

I wish after some time if rebels enter a loop they decide to take province of origion country of their culture group and try to siege their capital to enforce demands since they cant get it by moving between their culture lands To I dont know... ACHIVE SOMETING?