Is this normal that Heavy Tank Destroyers battalions now take 20 vehicles instead of 40 ?
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Ah, it's normal then.
Since...well....long ago, an HTD battalion was 20 vehicle, not 40.
hoi4.paradoxwikis.com
Since...well....long ago, an HTD battalion was 20 vehicle, not 40.
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Actually, with v1.11.7 and NSB (probably also requires MtG...), it's only SP AA that are a different size (36 accross all weightclasses); in all other cases, tank, SP artillery and TD require the same number.
But iirc, as late as v1.11.1, and maybe even more recently, yes, numbers were lower.
But iirc, as late as v1.11.1, and maybe even more recently, yes, numbers were lower.
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Akshually, light tanks still want 60 while their TD and SPG only want 50.
Yep, you're right ... it's complicated...
I've updated https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Tank_design#Chassis_types , would you mind checking?
Some of the information on that page is not the way that I would organize it. Which doesn't really mean anything, but I'll give you a list of things I've noticed anyway.
- Supply consumption and suppression are a battalion level stat, not attached to any particular chassis. I'd simply remove mention of it.
- Fuel consumption is a property of the engine and its upgrades, not the chassis.
- Chassis doesn't actually offer any breakthrough or defense, only the modules attached to it.
- What is mentioned as 'max speed' of the chassis, is including the engine and possibly suspension, which will skew the actual resulting numbers. The speed for light chassis is actualy 4/4/4.5/5, mediums are 4/4/4/4.5, heavies are 4/3.5/4/4, super heavies are 2.5, moderns are 4.5, amphibious are 4.
- Certain variants like SPG and SPAA, and amphibious will give a different hardness value based on the weight class of the vehicle. For tank/TD, SPG/SPAA, and amph lights are 80/50/55, mediums are 85/65/70, heavies are 95/80/80, supers are 100/90/-, moderns are 95/85/-, amphibious are -/-/85.
- The production costs for the chassis themselves are also including some other modules. Base costs of the chassis themselves should be 1/1.25/1.6/2 for lights, 2.5/2.5/3.2/4 for mediums, 10/10/10/12 for heavies, 24 for supers, 6 for moderns and 4.5 for amphibious.
- Something that is dependant on weight class of the chassis, is the amount of multi-turret modules you can put on the vehicle.
- The reduction to breakthrough for using an equipment class other than tank isn't what it used to be. It isn't -95% anymore, I could detail a list if you wanted but that is also a battalion level stat, which doesn't really matter for the designer.
- When it comes to modules, I would have split them between the major sub categories of weapons, turrets, suspension, armour, engine, and special modules instead of having all modules packed into a single list.
- Some of the module data is also outdated. Resource costs got shuffled, howitzers got soft attack boosted, a lot of price adjustments. Steel cost is now a thing.
- The engine/armour upgrades also have specific numbers attached to them, that aren't mentioned.
Half of that is stuff I'm already wanting to change.
Wrt to the battalion level stats, I think they differ between NSB and not-NSB, so this seems like as good a place to show them as any other.
Thank you for all the numbers!
(Edit: that page was started a few days ago and is *very* much work-in-progress.)
Wrt to the battalion level stats, I think they differ between NSB and not-NSB, so this seems like as good a place to show them as any other.
Thank you for all the numbers!
(Edit: that page was started a few days ago and is *very* much work-in-progress.)
@Andrew0Red
lol at the superheavy cannon being BFG sized. I think this is a dramatic improvement to what it was before, you're no doubt putting a lot of effort into this.
For objective things.
The special modules don't seem to mention any of the limitations involved. Certain modules you can only have 1 of per chassis (radio, dozers, among others) while some limits are chassis specific, like moderns/amphibious not allowing extra turrets, lights only being allowed 1 and mediums only being allowed 2.
I might do a pass over to fix particular values like breakthrough per armour upgrade, speeds and costs and stuff from engines and armour types suspensions and such, not a big deal right now.
The flame tanks (and light tanks used as recon) do not offer any hardness.
For the subjective things.
I won't say that the way you have organized the guns is bad, just that I would do it differently. You seem to have noticed that certain guns/modules will put a hard limit on the classification of the vehicle as only a certain specific type. Things like, mounting the flame thrower means it will only be a flame tank and not anything else. Mounting AA means it will be an SPAA variant and nothing else. Rocket modules will make it SPG and nothing else. Certain other guns, like the howitzers and close support gun, will simply allow for the option of the vehicle to be classed as this or that, instead of forcing it. As such, I would have taken the armament category and split it between the 4 chassis options (tank, td, SPG, SPAA), and listed the guns that allowed or forced (and distinguish between the two) under each of those categories.
It might also be possible to integrate the possible turret sizing comments into the chassis details table.
Another thing is that most of the other wiki pages that I've seen, notably do not give any particular advise about what the player may want, and only gives specific information about values and mechanics. I've seen several small comments here and there that make suggestions of what a player might want to do, and these could perhaps be taken out and put into its own section or its own page.
lol at the superheavy cannon being BFG sized. I think this is a dramatic improvement to what it was before, you're no doubt putting a lot of effort into this.
For objective things.
The special modules don't seem to mention any of the limitations involved. Certain modules you can only have 1 of per chassis (radio, dozers, among others) while some limits are chassis specific, like moderns/amphibious not allowing extra turrets, lights only being allowed 1 and mediums only being allowed 2.
I might do a pass over to fix particular values like breakthrough per armour upgrade, speeds and costs and stuff from engines and armour types suspensions and such, not a big deal right now.
The flame tanks (and light tanks used as recon) do not offer any hardness.
For the subjective things.
I won't say that the way you have organized the guns is bad, just that I would do it differently. You seem to have noticed that certain guns/modules will put a hard limit on the classification of the vehicle as only a certain specific type. Things like, mounting the flame thrower means it will only be a flame tank and not anything else. Mounting AA means it will be an SPAA variant and nothing else. Rocket modules will make it SPG and nothing else. Certain other guns, like the howitzers and close support gun, will simply allow for the option of the vehicle to be classed as this or that, instead of forcing it. As such, I would have taken the armament category and split it between the 4 chassis options (tank, td, SPG, SPAA), and listed the guns that allowed or forced (and distinguish between the two) under each of those categories.
It might also be possible to integrate the possible turret sizing comments into the chassis details table.
Another thing is that most of the other wiki pages that I've seen, notably do not give any particular advise about what the player may want, and only gives specific information about values and mechanics. I've seen several small comments here and there that make suggestions of what a player might want to do, and these could perhaps be taken out and put into its own section or its own page.
The limits on modules really ought to be there, maybe I'll add a column for that.
If you see some wrong values, please fix them.... we already know how accurate I am.
My ordering of the guns was based around trying to understand the guns on their own, making it easier for beginners to understand what the various guns could do. But ordering it around roles instead? That would achieve much of the same, just from a different angle. I expect it would be a bit more confusing for beginners, but more usefull for experienced players.
Hmm, I'll try a change to the main guns-table.
And yes, I give more advice than I should; a wall of information is no information at all. I expect somebody will edit it out at some point. In the meantime, beginners have a place to start.