Is this how Johan and Wiz look like while adjusting AE for 1.8?

[unmerged(755241)]

Is this AE/coalition thing in empire a recent thing? Because I can remember a lot of coalitions in hre on patches 1.0-1.5 at least. Haven't really seen any problems with AE. In my 1.6-1.7 game Ottomans annexed like 5 provinces and soon after an offensive coalition war was called. Other than that I don't see members of HRE annexing huge amount of provinces in the same war. As Wiz says, they usually pace themselves.

 

[Wizzington]

Your post implied that this was proof of some secret AI AE cheat though, which it's just not. It may be a bug, but without a repro save I really can't say for sure.

 

[Ktanzei]

Not to pile on or anything, but just to confirm this is a thing I've experienced much the same situation in the HRE. I have no clue what causes it but seeing others reporting the same bug makes me feel more confident there's something wrong. I'll try to repro it in a save when I'm free tomorrow.

 

[lordelenath]

Wiz, can you give me an explanation of this - I am playing as Utrecht and this is how my game is going(I am not complaining about the coalition, I think expanding in the HRE should be hard). Later the coalition declares war on me and Bohemia becomes war leader(they were my ally). I am defeated by Holland and they sign a peace with Bohemia in which they receive two provinces on which they have claims(not cores) and they have like 4 AE with the other members of the empire. Why is that? Is it a bug?

I am using the 1356 mod but it doesn't make any changes to AE.

The coalition CB significantly reduces AE.

 

[Neoton]

The coalition CB significantly reduces AE.

Just checked the wiki and the AE is only 10%. I didn't know that and I will try to use it more often in my games. Thanks for the explanation!
Btw it seems kind of overpowered. 4 AE for two provinces is not harsh enough imo but that's a different matter.

 

[Shiranui]

AE accumulation should be lowered... or decay should be raised...

IRL, if you paint a shade on a canvas, it wouldn't just get taken over by another shade if you paint too fast. It's ridiculous that this is the case in EU4.

EU4 is not a painting game.
It's ridiculous to compare countries with paint.

 

[Wizzington]

Just checked the wiki and the AE is only 10%. I didn't know that and I will try to use it more often in my games. Thanks for the explanation!
Btw it seems kind of overpowered. 4 AE for two provinces is not harsh enough imo but that's a different matter.

You can only take claims and cores with it. If it caused lots of AE it could result in rotating coalitions where whoever led the last coalition then gets coalitioned in turn.

 

[Freudia]

You can only take claims and cores with it. If it caused lots of AE it could result in rotating coalitions where whoever led the last coalition then gets coalitioned in turn.

I believe you can take vassals with it, and imo that's probably the strongest part of it, especially in the HRE.

By the way, do you still take AE for giving vassals to allies?

 

[durvas]

I can't say whether that's fishy or not, since you haven't stated:

• 8AE towards whom
• for which four provinces
• taken from whom
• by whom
• with which provincial culture and religion
• with which ideas
• with which CB
• under which game settings

I think it's more that the extra 25% AE reduction stacks with others from prestige, diplomacy, and curia controller to end up making it effectively much greater than 25% combined with the less aggressive nature of the AI.

 

[Iche_Bins]

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No no the AI doesn't get huge AE bonuses... sure

Interesting that you use a picture of a medium-large Austria, while you yourself rule all of Britain and North Germany as Scotland....

 

[atwix]

In return, I offer this wikipedia article.

omg. I laughed so hard. But it made me feel sad a bit after. Wonder if i should bother reading rest of the thread before it gets removed again on company policy.

Anyways, i did.

All i can say is: (and i mean it) Wiz, don't be overconfident there isn't something wrong with AE in general. If you would only give people the idea that there *might* be something wrong, people would be more inclined to give feedback. Now it just feels like "if you don't like missing screws, don't buy Ikea furniture."

..and that is meant as a joke, to avoid confusion

i'll give one serious example: is the existent ae rule for forcing a personal union WAD? You can force PU france now for 20 AE, what gives? I remember the days it was 400+, or 1 ae per base tax. Then halved, then nothing?

 

[atwix]

oh nevermind, edited and i'll wait till release of art of war.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

What.

It is not the 1st time that he is wrong and dismisses the claims that way; Like for example Wiz claiming that the AI does not cheat regarding knowledge of the player faraway troop movement when in fact that can be exploited to make the AI break sieges. I would give you a link but I simply don´t have the time to search for it, besides at least 2 people in this thread read it.

 

[Xara]

It is not the 1st time that he is wrong and dismisses the claims that way; Like for example Wiz claiming that the AI does not cheat regarding knowledge of the player faraway troop movement when in fact that can be exploited to make the AI break sieges. I would give you a link but I simply don´t have the time to search for it, besides at least 2 people in this thread read it.

I just don't understand the point of his comment. He makes it sound like the AE that should have gone to Austria went to Trier, instead, and that this is somehow an expected outcome, despite all peace deals attributing said AE (from granting land to an ally) to the ally, and not you.

So is that expected, or not? Or is it a bug? If it's a bug, is it being dealt with? Why does this sound surprising? If it's not a bug, then why is the description wrong?

I'm getting kind of tired of seeing or posting bug reports and the only response is "plz post a save" as if numerous situations like these weren't easily re-creatable via the console and the onus is on us to copy our ironman games anytime we find something out of whack. But whatever.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

omg. I laughed so hard. But it made me feel sad a bit after. Wonder if i should bother reading rest of the thread before it gets removed again on company policy.

I hope you find the video funny too.

Your post implied that this was proof of some secret AI AE cheat though, which it's just not. It may be a bug, but without a repro save I really can't say for sure.

Yeah but as always you are very quick in dismissing claims, I am really happy of how you handled my comments:

You're wrong on both counts here, sorry.

In return, I offer this wikipedia article.

Interesting how you did not replied to this:

Edit: Btw you better include a "forget this province/enemy" for vassal control in the next patch because this AI is just as dumb as the HOI III AI* when dealing with faraway enemies/theaters. In another words the German HOI III freaking out when Turkey territory is in the Axis is still there. Do you think that is confirmation bias also?
*No wonder becasue they are the same.

Unfortunately I have >1.5TB of .mp4 files to edit, I tried to find the file but searching for a few seconds where I bothered to check the Ottoman AE is like finding a needle in a haystack (there is even a small possibility that I only observed it between recordings).
Regarding AI stupidity however that is easy to spot in my current LP (vassals not attaching, unsure where to go and just dance back and forth between provinces, abandoning 40% sieges and literally hundreds of regiments falling asleep, some of them in the same province burning manpower); but I digress the cherry on top of the cake: a war against Russia where I was so strong (combined army of at least 1000 regiments) that my vassals could freely move in Europe, Africa and Asia so instead of most of them falling asleep doing literally nothing this time they went on excursion to Southwest Asia to siege Oman a OPM (already being sieged by my troops) while I was pretty much alone fighting Russia. Around 100 AI regiments went the right way but 60 of them did not do a thing as they fell asleep in friendly territory near Moscow. Anyone that as played HOI III and as seen the Axis AI strategically redeploy a huge amount of troops from the eastern front (letting the USSR march almost unopposed to Berlin) to go fight "a couple" of divisions in the Middle East/Caucasus will find this very familiar:

[video=youtube_share;luP9hwN0WQc]http://youtu.be/luP9hwN0WQc[/video]

Will this ever be fixed? When will the AI see a meaningfully and much needed overhaul? Thanks

 

[lucaluca]

The problem with this is that it is a positive feedback loop.

They get less AE, so their pacing is less threatening.
Because they tend to pace slower, they get even less AE.
Because of both of those, they can expand and expand and expand without ever facing the consequences.
The settings they get fuel growth which feeds back into being able to easily further grow.
It's why France, without player intervention, simply grows and grows and grows apart from the rare 1 in a 1000 game where they suffer an early defeat by combined Burgundy/Castile/Whoever alliances.
Don't you think players get tired of being forced to manage France in every campaign? Just once I would like to see Burgundy, Castile, Aragon, England become the superpower threat in the west...
A player by contrast much manage AE every step along the way. Hell, you can get a coalition from a single province at game start.

I agree with this. Coalitions should form not only against high AE countries, but also against large countries who are expanding more slowly like AI France

 

[Zander]

Well, in general coalitions should be based as much on size as on growth: it's ridiculous for huge nations to form coalitions against tiny ones, and while it would be annoying to have the rest of the world automatically coalesce against your half-the-world empire, it would be entirely sensible.

In my own games I've put back in a 0.01 AE scaling for size, and made it impossible to get Outraged attitude against nations much weaker than you, though I still can't do anything about those small nations accumulating vast AE for minor conquests.

 

[lucaluca]

Well, in general coalitions should be based as much on size as on growth: it's ridiculous for huge nations to form coalitions against tiny ones, and while it would be annoying to have the rest of the world automatically coalesce against your half-the-world empire, it would be entirely sensible.

In my own games I've put back in a 0.01 AE scaling for size, and made it impossible to get Outraged attitude against nations much weaker than you, though I still can't do anything about those small nations accumulating vast AE for minor conquests.

I also put back the 0.01 scaling with size but did not see much difference... enormous Russia still gets no coalitions... France from Lisbon to Amsterdam same... Ottomans do too much though so I gave them -30% AE tradition

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

I just don't understand the point of his comment. He makes it sound like the AE that should have gone to Austria went to Trier, instead, and that this is somehow an expected outcome, despite all peace deals attributing said AE (from granting land to an ally) to the ally, and not you.

So is that expected, or not? Or is it a bug? If it's a bug, is it being dealt with? Why does this sound surprising? If it's not a bug, then why is the description wrong?

I'm getting kind of tired of seeing or posting bug reports and the only response is "plz post a save" as if numerous situations like these weren't easily re-creatable via the console and the onus is on us to copy our ironman games anytime we find something out of whack. But whatever.

+1

 

[Wizzington]

It is not the 1st time that he is wrong and dismisses the claims that way; Like for example Wiz claiming that the AI does not cheat regarding knowledge of the player faraway troop movement when in fact that can be exploited to make the AI break sieges. I would give you a link but I simply don´t have the time to search for it, besides at least 2 people in this thread read it.

It does not *intentionally* cheat. Them retreating from a very far away movement is a bug.