Is this how Johan and Wiz look like while adjusting AE for 1.8?

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fleetothemoon

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AE accumulation should be lowered... or decay should be raised...

IRL, if you paint a shade on a canvas, it wouldn't just get taken over by another shade if you paint too fast. It's ridiculous that this is the case in EU4.
 

TheMeInTeam

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A personal note to Wiz,

This small reply made me laugh!

For all the grief that we give you when things get changed, for all the harsh statements made on the forums, I am so very glad you keep your sense of humor through all the uproar and tumult.

As much as I disagree with some of their mechanics changes and handling, it seems the folks at PI have an excellent sense of humor in general. You can read it in the game's event replies, event descriptions, naming, and so forth...or stuff like "devil spawn" in CK II, and especially in Magicka. PI is quite good with humor.
 

Wizzington

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So you're saying a player couldn't manage that kind of expansion in 215 years of play without having massive AE at the end of it? Because I'm completely certain that they could.
 

lareman

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So you're saying a player couldn't manage that kind of expansion in 215 years of play without having massive AE at the end of it? Because I'm completely certain that they could.
Look at the picture again. One year ago, Austria took 4 provinces from Bavaria in a peace... and now they only have 12AE?
 

Wizzington

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Have they lost provinces since? Because that would lower their AE. If not, upload a save from before they sign the peace with Bavaria and I'll see if something is weird.
 

TheMeInTeam

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A player could be much larger than that with 0 AE, real talk (and Scotland there is larger). Even if you only gouged prestige, but that's very slow expansion.

The question is whether the coalition + combined truce model is any fun, which right now it isn't, nor does it offer proportionate rewards to the cost/challenge. AE isn't the problem, and never really was the problem. It's the nonsensical implementation of the coalition mechanic itself that is problematic, especially when stacked with truces. You wind up with very, very long periods where neither side can attack each other without large expense, or even worse only the aggressor against the coalition can do so (if a new member joins). It's not a good working model, and neither is the necessity to carefully manage relations as a 4 province minor (breaking truce) to prevent multiple majors from using a dogpile mechanic to work with their enemies against you. In fact, even if a coalition member breaks truce, he can't bring in other members, meaning that you can get a guaranteed 1-sided NAP against coalitions simply by signing a peace deal ^_^.
 

Hootieleece

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But AI Austria doesn't ever get a Coalition against it while expanding like the above picture, because of the AE modifier to AE. AE is the source of Coalitions but "Lucky" AI Nations almost never cross the threshold need for another AI nation to create one. I think that is what the others are trying to say.
 

Wizzington

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But AI Austria doesn't ever get a Coalition against it while expanding like the above picture, because of the AE modifier to AE. AE is the source of Coalitions but "Lucky" AI Nations almost never cross the threshold need for another AI nation to create one. I think that is what the others are trying to say.

Lucky nations only get -25% AE, a peace deal like that would generate a very large amount of AE even if they have additional AE reduction, but without actually showing the AE at the day of signing peace it's hard to know if something else has influenced it since.
 

Luffy07

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Have they lost provinces since? Because that would lower their AE. If not, upload a save from before they sign the peace with Bavaria and I'll see if something is weird.

It was ironman and I went ahead with my own stuff. And no they didn't lose any province in the 5 months between the peace deal and my screenshot. Yes it was weird but it wasn't the first time I saw that kind of weirdness happening with lucky nations
 

Hootieleece

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I know I have bias but I have almost never seen a "Lucky" AI nation be a target of a Coalition yet happily eating everyone and everything. France, Austria, and Muscovy, Russia being the most common offenders.

AI Nations that are not "Lucky" will get Coalitions against them. Burgundy and Bavaria being commonly stomped by Coalitions and then Dogpiled by everyone else.
 

lareman

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Lucky nations only get -25% AE, a peace deal like that would generate a very large amount of AE even if they have additional AE reduction, but without actually showing the AE at the day of signing peace it's hard to know if something else has influenced it since.
I think the AE is accurate. -25% from cleansing of heresy, -25% from lucky, and maybe -20% from ideas and policies. The 25% reduction becomes pretty huge when coupled with all the other modifiers.
 

Wizzington

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Trier signed the peace, they might've gotten the AE meant for Austria. I just ran a quick test with lucky Austria grabbing 3 provinces off Bavaria and even with AE reduction ideas unlocked in addition to the lucky bonus they get a boatload of AE.

So no, again, AI does not cheat beyond what I've already gone over. If there is something at play here besides the normal mechanics it's a bug.

I think the AE is accurate. -25% from cleansing of heresy, -25% from lucky, and maybe -20% from ideas and policies. The 25% reduction becomes pretty huge when coupled with all the other modifiers.

CB reduction is not additive with other bonuses, and given how high AE is within the HRE it seems dubious they'd be able to reduce it that low.
 

sermaciej

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As much as I disagree with some of their mechanics changes and handling, it seems the folks at PI have an excellent sense of humor in general. You can read it in the game's event replies, event descriptions, naming, and so forth...or stuff like "devil spawn" in CK II, and especially in Magicka. PI is quite good with humor.
Magicka is not PI's game, they are "just" publisher. But I agree with you.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Trier signed the peace, they might've gotten the AE meant for Austria. I just ran a quick test with lucky Austria grabbing 3 provinces off Bavaria and even with AE reduction ideas unlocked in addition to the lucky bonus they get a boatload of AE.

So no, again, AI does not cheat beyond what I've already gone over. If there is something at play here besides the normal mechanics it's a bug.



CB reduction is not additive with other bonuses, and given how high AE is within the HRE it seems dubious they'd be able to reduce it that low.

Is there any way to determine how CB and other reductions interact precisely, aside from trial and error, given that the nature of the bonuses you get from ideas that give both are gameplay rules?
 

MutantPenguin

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Trier signed the peace, they might've gotten the AE meant for Austria. ...
So no, again, AI does not cheat beyond what I've already gone over. If there is something at play here besides the normal mechanics it's a bug.
Actually I'm pretty sure I've seen that sort of thing happen before - never occurred to me it might've been a bug.

Definitely doesn't always happen that way though - I once had a game ruined because, as Austria, I got a ton of AE from four Bavarian provinces I was given in a war when I wasn't the leader. I only wanted one or two, but there was no option for that :(
 

Neoton

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Wiz, can you give me an explanation of this - I am playing as Utrecht and this is how my game is going(I am not complaining about the coalition, I think expanding in the HRE should be hard). Later the coalition declares war on me and Bohemia becomes war leader(they were my ally). I am defeated by Holland and they sign a peace with Bohemia in which they receive two provinces on which they have claims(not cores) and they have like 4 AE with the other members of the empire. Why is that? Is it a bug?

I am using the 1356 mod but it doesn't make any changes to AE.
 

Luffy07

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Trier signed the peace, they might've gotten the AE meant for Austria. I just ran a quick test with lucky Austria grabbing 3 provinces off Bavaria and even with AE reduction ideas unlocked in addition to the lucky bonus they get a boatload of AE.

So no, again, AI does not cheat beyond what I've already gone over. If there is something at play here besides the normal mechanics it's a bug.



CB reduction is not additive with other bonuses, and given how high AE is within the HRE it seems dubious they'd be able to reduce it that low.

No I checked back then and Trier didn't get any AE. Like I said it isn't the first time something like that happened (couple of patches ago, Bohemia prefered to join a coalition against me for fabrication a claim on a neighboring nation rather than Austria who took 4 provinces from them in 2 successive wars (back when truces were 5 years)) but when you play a game for 900 hours you're bound to see strange stuff