Is this game going to only be available on Steam again? I hope not

[shierholzer]

Lastly I don't see why there isn't at least a little concern over the risk of monopolization.

Steam wouldn't last long if they'd push their market share. So what do you need fo distributing games:
(1) obviously, the game
(2) someone handling payments, there are numerous people out doing hat kind of stuff
(3) a web shop - capable open source versions are around, any informatics student could et them up for you.
(4) server resources - usually they aren't provided by the company itself, but by CDNs. Steams own server resources only do shop&authentification, downloads are leased from third-party CDNs - leasable by everybody

If Steam fails to continue providing superb conditions to publishers, they will die extremely fast.

 

[Secret Master]

Time. Each freaking update requires you to do that again. People who built their house out of tin foil might add, that Steam has already data about them at that point.

Well, you can have convenience or be more security conscious. But that's everywhere in the world, long before the Internet came out.

I would implore you to please be a little more empathetic to those of us that have had real technical issues with Steam and therefore prefer not to use it at all.

I respect your modding work deeply and would have thought for sure that you would have run into Steam causing issues with mods at some point in time.

I do copy my files out of Steam directory, but in CK2 have had to manually move many files over to non Steam folder to get my personal mods to work after 1 update and 1 DLC.

I'm flattered, but I haven't posted an official mod of anything since EU2 or so. You might be mistaking me for someone else.

Sounds like a pain in the arse, but not the end of the world.

Also had issue with what turned out to be no recourse at all except disputing charge after buying EU4 from Humble Bundle just before Christmas. Took 13 days for it to get worked out and even though it was actually a problem within my Steam account they refused to do anything to correct it.

I hear these stories sometimes, although I'm at the point in my life where I'm cynical enough to just assume that it's the same crap whether I'm dealing with Steam or Wal-Mart or U-Haul.

While I'm sure PDS would make sure this wouldn't happen their have been numerous times in the past on some other publisher's games where users of Steam were not able play using some mods. Just think how upset you would be if Steam made some kind of change down the road that made you have to make significant changes to one of your mods so it would work properly?

I just assume that mods always have to change every time things update, Steam or not. That's been par for the course for years in the industry. It's only been in the past 10 years that we've started seeing patches not break mods upon release.

I'd only be worried if Steam made mods impossible on a game that previously supported them. But I'm also assuming that such a move would alienate publishers.

Lastly I don't see why there isn't at least a little concern over the risk of monopolization. What if in 5 years Dteam has the market cornered, and does decide to force all games to require Steam run in background in order to function? Also, what if game size gets so big that data transfer reaches critical mass and they are forced to provide more bandwidth, server resources, etc, to preferred publishers thst don't include your favorite games developer?

Certainly distributing exclusively through Steam is not the end of the world, but there are logical reasons to not want it, and certainly justifiable reasons to complain about it.

The monopolization problem is what used to bother me about Steam awhile back. But I realized that as it gets cheaper to set up download services that accept money (Hell, when the former stars of MST3K can set up a service to stream their content and get paid for it, the entry bar is pretty low), Steam really has no choice but to play nice with publishers or see a stampede to proprietary stuff for each publisher or competing services.

To be perfectly frank, I trust publishers less than Steam in many cases. When I realized that the DRM issue with most games had nothing to do with Steam (after Paradox started doing Stem stuff), I knew that Steam isn't the enemy. It's publishers who think installing rootkits on your system is okay who are the true Lords of the Sith in this regard.

 

[unmerged(12131)]

One does not need to have Steam checked in the Startup pane in Task Manager. One can pay Steam with PayPal and never furnish Steam your credit card number.

 

[Mjuice]

The monopolization thing really should be the biggest concern for consumers about Steam. It's a company and companies exist to make money so in the end if they think they can make more money out of you by some means and they can get away with it they will do it. Right now they are already able to force you to install their client software that is bloated with ads and social network features etc. In the future, if they maintain a complete monopoly in PC game distribution then that probably won't be the only thing they're going to be forcing on you.

 

[Jorlaan]

One can also buy a steam card in a store now. No tax whatsoever, so for me $50 for steam cost me $50.

 

[shierholzer]

No tax whatsoever, so for me $50 for steam cost me $50.

Tax is payed on actual products (provided your country/state has vat) - not payment credits.

 

[frolix42]

Steam
1) gathers your PERSONAL data and use them to make money
2) runs on you PC, consumes your resources
3) might do things you don't know/you are unaware of
4) is getting a big share of the market and when something like that happens the consequences for all (customers/publishers/etc.) are pretty nasty
5) can try something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

If you think Steam does add some value feel free to use it but, as a customer, I would like to have the option to stay far away from it.

"WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" Is there anything so shrill?

Have you been as angry at Microsoft for the past 25 years as you are at Valve? Microsoft has a much more complete and unbreakable monopoly on your digital world. Valve realizes this even if you don't, it competes with Microsoft as a game publisher. This is why Valve is encouraging the development of Linux as a gaming platform.

If you're so paranoid, I'm surprised that you're not already using a VPN. But it certainly takes less effort to complain on a forum. Also feel free to vote with your wallet.

I love Steam for the simple fact that many niche games are almost impossible to find in Brazil in boxed form.

This man has his priorities in order.

 

[shierholzer]

I'm surprised that you're not already using a VPN.

Who told you?

This is why Valve is encouraging the development of Linux as a gaming platform.

Nah. Both Valve and MS are quite minor publishers. Valve's frindship with Linux comes from the wish to expand Steam into the console player market (PC<->Console is almost as Steam<->non-Steam - lot's of people not able to understand, that for different people, different solutions may fit better.
--
Steam is not the envy of worlds as some like to see it. However, Steam is also not the best thing since the wheel. This debate could take a bit less extremism on either side.
--
On data usage: I understand, that roaming is something Yanks (and Canadians) usually only experience if they're travelling to Europe. However, we've tons of borders here in Europe - as soon as you leave the country your provider is based you've to pay significant extra charges. Given the fact, that electromagnetic waves don't care about borders, this can kick up to 50km from the border. If you're using a network based in the right wrong country, charges can be as high as 1.50€ / 10KB. Even the ads Steam loads can equate to a week's wage if you've got bad luck.

 

[Cardus]

QUOTE=Cardus;17105300]Steam
1) gathers your PERSONAL data and use them to make money
2) runs on you PC, consumes your resources
3) might do things you don't know/you are unaware of
4) is getting a big share of the market and when something like that happens the consequences for all (customers/publishers/etc.) are pretty nasty
5) can try something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
6) causes vulnerability issues http://www.highseverity.com/2012/03/valve-fixes-https-vulnerability-in.html http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/17/feeling-vulnerable-steams-protocol-could-allow-attacks/

http://www.techly.com.au/2014/01/31/legitimate-concerns-around-steams-power-valve-us/

Getting a refund for a game purchased on Steam is notoriously difficult; once installed, you’ve pretty much locked yourself into the purchase.

Although Steam has the option for a temporary offline mode, the inbuilt Steam DRM system can cause issues for users with no access to the internet

. If to start your car every day you needed to call the manufacturer to get permission to use it, wouldn’t you be outraged?

If Valve were to go bankrupt or the Steam service data completely lost, all access to the products you purchased would be gone. Your ability to use a product which you have legally and rightfully purchased would be over.

By utilising Greenlight, developers are effectively asking consumers to pay the full price for the privilege of playing an incomplete, buggy, oftentimes broken product

Although many subscribe to the opinion that the consumer is warned about the state of the game they are purchasing and are willing to pay for an incomplete product, Steam’s stiff return policies even apply to Greenlight titles.

I’ve been personally burned by a few Greenlight purchases and wanted refunds almost immediately, but that’s not an option

http://www.techly.com.au/2014/01/31/legitimate-concerns-around-steams-power-valve-us/


If you think Steam does add some value feel free to use it but, as a customer, I would like to have the option to stay far away from it

 

[Mabs]

people really need to grow up and get a grip.
if youre worried about 3rd party software, go compare Steam to Origin (especially its launch information)

can you have your credit card info stolen ? yea, doing almost anything online,... oh and by people using card cloners on cashpoints, or looking over your shoulder in shops, thats why you have bank insurance. and aslong as you dont use 1234 or QWERTY or something equally stupid as your password for EVERYTHING, its hardly a problem. i would hope people have moved past that now but you never know
steam combines friends list/shop/game launch platform. if you dont like certain parts of that, turn off the options, you can choose what it displays, and when. instead of raging, try reading some FAQs or forums

most people who hate on steam are the same people who read the Daily Mail/watch Fox News and get their opinions spoon-fed to them. if you have half a brain, do your own research (by which i mean read up and make informed decisions, dont go to your local dispenser of "news" that uses short words and hand gestures to drive its own message for lowest common denominator muppets) and you will realise that while steam is not perfect, it is far from the evil beast squatting in the corner plotting your downfall you seem to think it is.

steam has provided many benefits, driving Cloud, allowing people to maintain multiple installs without disks, especially those who use laptops / travel around a lot. it has also supported and nurtured the Indie community

and its been around long enough now that the hates and whiners have been shown to be just that.. so i refer you to my first comment. its old news, get over it, move with the times. if you really hate the "always on, always available" way the gaming tech is going, i suggest you give up before it gets "worse" as its not going to wind back 10-15 years on your account

 

[Cardus]

people really need to grow up and get a grip.
....

if you have half a brain..

I hope that you useed your half brain before posting

 

[Centurion1973]

If you think Steam does add some value feel free to use it but, as a customer, I would like to have the option to stay far away from it

You do have a choice - nobody is holding gun to your head.

btw.: people who cant recognize difference between Steam Greenlight and Steam Early Access should not write articles about Steam, because they just show their own stupidity.

As for refunds its exactly the same as getting refund for any other digital service/goods - you cant get refund from MS if you dont like features in OS you bought. You also cant get refund in cinema just because you didnt like that movie...

As for need for internet connection - thats like complaining to Dell that your PC doesnt work without electricity or to VW that your car isnt going anywhere without gas.

 

[Cardus]

You do have a choce - nobody is holding gun to your head.

No if the games are only available on Steam. It seems that Steam can oblige publishers/developers to sell exclusively on its platform (issue #4 I mentioned above)

btw.: people who cant recognize difference between Steam Greenlight and Steam Early Access should not write articles about Steam, because they just show their own stupidity.

As for refunds its exactly the same as getting refund for any other digital service/goods - you cant get refund from MS if you dont like features in OS you bought. You also cant get refund in cinema just because you didnt like that movie...

As for need for internet connection - thats like complaining to Dell that your PC doesnt work without electricity or to VW that your cant isnt going anywhere without gas.

Obviously your example is wrong. Try to think why

 

[shierholzer]

people really need to grow up and get a grip.

What really bothers my about this (and the uncounted similar statements here and elsewhere):
Who on earth gave you the right to declare my worries invalid - just because you don't understand them?

oh and by people using card cloners on cashpoints

You're from Yankeeland? Back here in Europe this wasn't an issue for like 5 years and will probably stay a non-issue for another 15.

if youre worried about 3rd party software, go compare Steam to Origin (especially its launch information)

So people complain about Steam being a petty criminal in the gaming industry - and you tell them:
Compare Steam with the gaming industry's Al Capone (Origin) - worries about Steam are invalid because of this.

As for need for internet connection - thats like complaining to Dell that your PC doesnt work without electricity or to VW that your car isnt going anywhere without gas.

Really? PCs require electricity to run and cars gas. Games do not require the Internet to do someting that makes sense (VW won't prohibit you from running your car from muscles btw) - anyways Steam forces me to be online.

 

[ero_sk]

I seriously don't get this hatred for steam...

I seriously don't understand why some people hate Facebook. I seriously don't understand why some people hate Windows 8 and its interface. I seriously don't understand why some people hate green tea...

Maybe it's time to understand that human's nature make us all different therefore we have different opinions? Something that you see as advantage someone may see as disadvantage. Something that you see as great someone may see as crap. It's so simple.

Opposite to your statement I do understand why some people love Steam and I do understand why some people hate it. Moreover I think it's a bit riddicolous to pay money for something that you won't own. If you buy a physical copy of a game of course you don't own the game itself but you can have the disc and noone can take it away from you. Steam can block you access to the games you spent money on... Plus I simply have constant invigilation these days. Even on Steam. How many hours have you played, what are you playing at the moment etc. Nah, it's not for me. I honestly value my privacy.

 

[MKDELTA]

Also feel free to vote with your wallet.

Pretty difficult to vote with your wallet in a (near) monopoly.

I guess I could just refrain from buying future Paradox products. But I don't want to do that. I want to support Paradox, not Valve. As it stands now when I vote Paradox for President I'm stuck with Valve as the vice-president.

 

[Victor Cortez]

Programs like Steam and Origin make my life so much easier.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

Pretty difficult to vote with your wallet in a (near) monopoly.

I guess I could just refrain from buying future Paradox products. But I don't want to do that. I want to support Paradox, not Valve. As it stands now when I vote Paradox for President I'm stuck with Valve as the vice-president.

Steam isn't a near monopoly, There is Impulse now owned by gamestop as well. And Steam is simply a competitor to retailers such as Gamestop, except people are choosing Steam over disk games because its easier.

You either:
pay Paradox about 85% of the revenue and Valve 15%
Or Pay Paradox about 60% of the revenue, DVD Printing company 20%, and Distributor like Gamestop/Walmart 20%.

The only company in the world right now that sells directly to the consumer is VALVE. By using Steam you actually increase competition among Developers and actually support those developers with more of your money.

 

[Xaioxaiofan]

This reminds me of some threads from a while back about EU4 being steam only.

And no, there won't be a non-steam version.. We had a huge forum-demand for a non-steam version of CK2, and it had an even less percent of the market than we had expected.

Johan also wrote a blog on why EU4 is steam only.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/entry.php?1781-Why-EU4-requires-Steamworks.

 

[Cardus]

Steam isn't a near monopoly,

It seems that Johan has a very different opinion

Steam has pretty much the entire market

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/entry.php?1781-Why-EU4-requires-Steamworks