Is this a bug?

[Simna]

Hej!

I'll never get the money, just the territory, when my enemy pays tribute.
This has happend to me a every time I demand money. Why?
If he is out of money I shouldn't be able to demand such amount of money. Or....?

Lev väl.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

If your demands are for more than he has in his treasury, he only has to pay you what's in there. This applies to you also: this is why the AI will sometimes present you with a demand for 27 ducats. He actually wants 250, but you don't have that much so you can escape for just 27. You're never obliged (and neither is the AI) to take out a loan to cover a peace demand - unless, you've spent money in between getting the demand and accepting it. ie. if the demand comes through for 27 ducats and you send out a trader and only have 19 left, and then accept it, you will be forced to borrow money. Because the AI always responds instantly, this never happens to it.

 

[Orm]

The money you demand is also divided between your allies if you have any.

 

[Simna]

Hej!

Thank you both. Now I understand.
But I think you should be able to know if he can pay you what you want when he accept, otherwise you maybe want to demand another territory.

Lev väl.

 

[Orm]

If you wan't to get us much money as possible out of your enemy you should wait until the January 1st to make your demands so the AI wont have time to spend the money it gets. I use this strategy almost always and it works well.

 

[unmerged(2531)]

Originally posted by beowulf
The money you demand is also divided between your allies if you have any.

WAIT A SECOND! You mean if I demand 250, and have 2 allies, we all receive 83 ducats? Are you sure,I haven't noticed this. I'm running ICG 1.08.

 

[Orm]

Originally posted by aikman

WAIT A SECOND! You mean if I demand 250, and have 2 allies, we all receive 83 ducats? Are you sure,I haven't noticed this. I'm running ICG 1.08.

I'm not sure exactly how it works. But if you think about it it's only fair isn't it? Why should you get all the money if you have allies?

 

[Vulture]

Well if you did all the work in eliminating a country, I think you should get a bigger share. An ally that sits on his ass shouldn't get any. Just like I don't need rewards when I do the same

 

[Orm]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Well if you did all the work in eliminating a country, I think you should get a bigger share. An ally that sits on his ass shouldn't get any. Just like I don't need rewards when I do the same

A nice way of splitting the money would be if it was based on number of stars that the country had.
If countries A, B and C are allies and A has 4 stars, B has 2 stars and C has 1 star, then A should get 4/7 of the money, B 2/7 and C 1/7. That would be fair. But I don't think that's the way it works in the game.

 

[PatMaster]

Ummm, I dont think thats in the game at all.
I dont think it should be implemented either.

 

[unmerged(4877)]

Is there a way to offer less than 250 ducets if you don't have enough? It appears the AI can.

 

[BiB]

U can't. The AI can ask for a lesser amount though if u have less than 250.

 

[PatMaster]

No they dont
They asks for 250

 

[BiB]

How come I regularly get offers where I have to pay the like of 7 ducats ?

 

[unmerged(3627)]

If the AI demands 250 ducats from you and you only have 7 in the treasury, you only have to pay 7. If you demand 250 ducats from the AI and it only has 7 in the treasury, it only has to pay 7. Whether or not it's the AI or the game engine that changes the demand to 7 ducats doesn't really matter much - I prefer to think it's the game engine working the same way for both sides.

If you OFFER 250 ducats, you will be forced to take out a loan to pay it. There's no way to make an offer of 7 ducats. The AI never offers cash if it has less than 250 ducats (in fact, I don't recall seeing the AI ever offer cash at all.)

 

[unmerged(4130)]

Originally posted by BiB
How come I regularly get offers where I have to pay the like of 7 ducats ?

What he meant I think that the Ai considers the his offer as if he asked 250d. So the AI will offer you peace regerdles of you having or not having the money.
Even more it is possible to think of the AI and the game engine as two separate entities. In this case the AI sends his peace offer of demand 250d to you which is interpreted by the game engine as a demand of 10d. I'm not sure though if this reasoning is correct.

 

[unmerged(4130)]

Originally posted by Heyesey
If the AI demands 250 ducats from you and you only have 7 in the treasury, you only have to pay 7. If you demand 250 ducats from the AI and it only has 7 in the treasury, it only has to pay 7. Whether or not it's the AI or the game engine that changes the demand to 7 ducats doesn't really matter much - I prefer to think it's the game engine working the same way for both sides.

If you OFFER 250 ducats, you will be forced to take out a loan to pay it. There's no way to make an offer of 7 ducats. The AI never offers cash if it has less than 250 ducats (in fact, I don't recall seeing the AI ever offer cash at all.)

The question is wheter it makes sense to say that there is an AI and a game engine. It might be your impression when you play the game, but actually it's just a program running and if you were given the opportunity to read the source you might not know which part is the "AI" and which is the "game engine"

 

[BiB]

When I get a screen from a country asking to conclude peace in which I get asked for 7D, I get asked for 7D

But of course it can very well be they are asking 250 but because I ain't got it or whatever I get asked for 7, but that still is getting asked 7 ducats, no matter how it got there. Does it really matter how it got there anyway ? I got asked for 7D, I pay 7D. That's it really. I get a question to pay 7D.

Wouldn't it be pretty cool that all this complaining about the AI not paying up is actually the same thing as the ai "experiences", human players not paying up ?

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by rOver


The question is wheter it makes sense to say that there is an AI and a game engine. It might be your impression when you play the game, but actually it's just a program running and if you were given the opportunity to read the source you might not know which part is the "AI" and which is the "game engine"

I agree that from a coding point of view it might be hard to separate the two, but I look at it like this:

"The computer" is not trying to beat me in this game; if it were, it would make sure that all my colony attempts failed, I got lots of bad random events etc. The game engine is just sitting there processing developments, whereas the AI is actively trying to win the game. Not only that, but there is a separate AI for each country; otherwise on Jan. 2nd 1492, every single country in the world would DoW me and "The AI" would be certain of winning, since I'm no way in any shape to beat the world that early. So from a gameplay point of view, I think it does make sense to distinguish between what the AI is doing for any given country, and what the game engine is doing. Like BiB said - I like to think that the AI is actually sending a demand for 250 ducats, but is only going to get seven of them

 

[unmerged(4130)]

Originally posted by Heyesey


I agree that from a coding point of view it might be hard to separate the two, but I look at it like this:

"The computer" is not trying to beat me in this game; if it were, it would make sure that all my colony attempts failed, I got lots of bad random events etc. The game engine is just sitting there processing developments, whereas the AI is actively trying to win the game. Not only that, but there is a separate AI for each country; otherwise on Jan. 2nd 1492, every single country in the world would DoW me and "The AI" would be certain of winning, since I'm no way in any shape to beat the world that early. So from a gameplay point of view, I think it does make sense to distinguish between what the AI is doing for any given country, and what the game engine is doing. Like BiB said - I like to think that the AI is actually sending a demand for 250 ducats, but is only going to get seven of them

That's it. The AI (or AIs) and the game engine are human abstractions. Very good abstractions actually but they leave some questions unanswerable. Like wheter it's the AI or the game engine that asks 7d. Of course with some premises, like the "the game engine works the same for both sides" this question is easily answerable, the problem however still remains becouse this premise contradicts our experiences. So I have to agree with you again everyone can believe what they want.(edit:though you never explicitly said that) I believe that both are true, but that doesn't mean that anyone who thinks oterwise is wrong, quite the contrary actually.