Is there soft way how to break enemies PUs?

[Phantomiux]

So first quick introduction in my dire situation: I am in year 1652 as PLC and until now I was mostly focused on Russia/Ottomans expansion. I managed to beat Russia into level that they can't raise more than 40k mens (and ofc, Moskwa is polish city now :-D ) and result after 5 PLC-Ottos war was Ottos almost pushed out of Balcany (and Carogrod as Cherry on top). As you could imagine, I focused mostly on east and everything was going fine. Until...

Well as Catholic nation I picked DotF and was dragged into Milan-Pope war. Nothing special, but on pure numbers their side have 3x more infantry than me because France, Castile and England (and their colonies). But - I made a closer look on France and I realized that both Castile and England became Junior Partners of France meanwhile I was distracted by Ottomans threath. That war ended pretty good (white peace) but my PLC would have no chance in any war vs that insane Empire beyond Rhine (no real allies, only 1 march and 2 vasals). And I am not even sure if Cancel Subject peace term is an option. So what now? I have never facing similar situation before.

Because I am aiming for Poland can into space, I am on Ironman. Because of Winged Hussars I took Aristocratic-Espionage Policy for Cavalry bonus. Now I just try to build spy net on France and sowing discontent/ sabotaging reputation on CD. Have I some more opportunities, how to deal with that situation?

 

[Piotrzeci]

You can support their pretendent rebels. If they manage to win a country becomes independent. Obviously they need high unrest to fire and even more distraction to actually enforce demands, but if they ever get into trouble it is a good way. AI PU overlords don't seem to care much about rebels in their subject lands.

 

[Regaccio]

The only ways for a PU to break are:

• Junior partner declares an independence war and wins
• Ruler dies while junior partner has a negative opinion of senior partner
• Pretender rebels enforce demands on junior partner and change the ruler
• Rebels enforce demands that change the government type of either partner

Since war is off the table, there are very few ways you can make any of this happen. The "best" way seems to be to support rebels, sow discontent, etc. and hope that rebels satisfy one of the above conditions while France has her troops sleeping in a dumb location miles away, as the AI often does. Another way would be to try and aid France's enemies/declare war on her allies' allies in such a way that you try to drain her finances and make rebel problems more likely - but in this patch where money is basically infinite I don't see that happening. If France are Catholic, you could also try getting Papal Controller and excommunicating their ruler to make their subjects like them less. Anything to pump up their liberty desire.

Honestly though, you're probably going to have to declare war if you want to break them up. The longer you wait the worse it might get as France will get chances to inherit Castille/England and trust between them will increase (I think)

 

[StriderLS]

Pretender rebels was the reason I, Holland became independent from Burgundy without an independence war. My overlord had his hands full with 2 ongoing wars. I suppose I was quite lucky.

 

[Phantomiux]

The only ways for a PU to break are:

• Junior partner declares an independence war and wins
• Ruler dies while junior partner has a negative opinion of senior partner
• Pretender rebels enforce demands on junior partner and change the ruler
• Rebels enforce demands that change the government type of either partner

Since war is off the table, there are very few ways you can make any of this happen. The "best" way seems to be to support rebels, sow discontent, etc. and hope that rebels satisfy one of the above conditions while France has her troops sleeping in a dumb location miles away, as the AI often does. Another way would be to try and aid France's enemies/declare war on her allies' allies in such a way that you try to drain her finances and make rebel problems more likely - but in this patch where money is basically infinite I don't see that happening. If France are Catholic, you could also try getting Papal Controller and excommunicating their ruler to make their subjects like them less. Anything to pump up their liberty desire.

Honestly though, you're probably going to have to declare war if you want to break them up. The longer you wait the worse it might get as France will get chances to inherit Castille/England and trust between them will increase (I think)

So - France is Defender of Protestant Faith, which bonded my hand not only with attempt to get Papal Controler but even with declaring war on any Protestant Countries. Luckily there is no chance for Inheriting Castile or England because that countries are too big. Yes, they have some Liberty Desire, sadly my DIP tech is still far from unlocking Agitate for Liberty action.

For that Pretender Rebels - I can see 2 problems here. 1st my money situation isn't so great as I would imagine and 2nd if that rebellion wouldn't be big enough then Castile/England can handle it on their own...

So... probably best idea now is just trying to execute Court and Country and meanwhile avoiding France as long as possible... :-/

 

[Dominion]

Could also just ignore them. You don't sound like you have a specific achievement in mind, so why not just continue rolling through Asia.

 

[Cataphract887]

Diplomatic solution...You could try to revoke the HRE and vassal swarm them. Do you even have a land border with France? As Dominion said, sounds like you could ignore them. Unless you feel the need to be number one in Europe.

Military solution...get Quality\Offensive\Economic, maximize artillery combat strength and discipline bonuses.

Economic Solution...you say your expanding into Ottos and own much of Russia. Consolidate these areas and possibly expand into China, a very rich land with many manufacturies and easy to beat with current mandate penalties. If you integrated most of china you would have massive income and increased force limit, enough to overpower France. Same goes for acquiring India.

 

[Phantomiux]

Ok, finaly home from work, I can include one screenshot about my situation.

So France has Castile and England as Junior partner + Milan as regular Ally. Milan want to expand into Pope territory and because of my Deffender of Catholic Faith, I have to accept help (well I have not but that was 3rd war when I fully realized what monster France actually became). I have Zaporozhie and Moldavia as Vasals, Nitra is my March. And Bohemia is my ally and current Emperor of HRE.

Whole reason for this thread was fact that I have to forget on Deffender title because I don't want to be dragged into any war versus France (and their buddies) - at least until I manage get bigger army than 150k. I was happy that I defeated 5 times Ottomans but first 3 wars was really close and Ottos have still 200k+ army. And my 2nd war when I must face France (again Milan vs Pope) was almost disaster - France wiped one of my army...

But again I thank all who try to help, any advise is helpful - I am playing EU IV since 1.5 patch but on Ironman I managed finished only 2 campaigns (one of them just few weeks ago) and I am still newbie in gameplay after 1600+.

 

[Dominion]

Ignore France. Eat Ottos+Persia instead.

By the way, beautiful Nitra.

 

[Phantomiux]

By the way, beautiful Nitra.

Well - thats result of that OP France - if I declare on Venice, France will be involved. But now I realize that I can actually no-cb City of Bekes (that orange point) which would drag Venice into war, but no France. And I forgot to mention that Bulgaria is my vasal too...

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

If you stack a few military Ideas you can take them. Polish Ideas are just as amazing as French Ideas in terms of combat strength(probably flat out better TBH). Work on Professionalism and Absolutism, take a discipline adviser, try and get one of the better military policies and go wild. You can easily have space marines and crush the French. It'll take two wars, but you can dismantle the PU for something like 80 WS. I'd have them release Castile first then ally them if you can to completely turn the tables.

 

[TheDutchWarlord]

Well - thats result of that OP France - if I declare on Venice, France will be involved. But now I realize that I can actually no-cb City of Bekes (that orange point) which would drag Venice into war, but no France. And I forgot to mention that Bulgaria is my vasal too...

If you set the city of Bekes as a important province to your realm (Red in the screen where you can set which provinces you want) then you vassal is quite likely to make a claim on it, so no need to us best CB yet