Is there anybody that doesn't research dangerous tech as soon as it becomes available?

[Hapchazzard]

Because I really don't see a reason why you wouldn't, except perhaps not to piss off the Keepers of Knowledge.

1) The Unbidden aren't really that scary, at least in my experience, ESPECIALLY if they spawn in your empire/next to your empire. Any empire worth it's salt by 2350 can crush them like bugs, and even if it fails to do so, most of the time neighbors will start swarming the portal ASAP. The machine consciousness is even more pathetic - basically unless you were foolish enough to build synths everywhere, they're no threat at all.

2) Even if you wanted to avoid the crises, someone else in the galaxy will inevitably get an AI uprising or tear a hole in reality. Worse yet, the Unbidden seem to be able to spawn inside your borders even if you don't have jump drives at all.

So, did anybody here actually ever turn down the opportunity to get jump drives/sentient AI?

 

[DBT85]

I've ignored any red tech that's popped up so far.

 

[RogerWilco]

I have avoided the tech as well. I've only had Sentient AI pop up a few times, but as I'm pretty sure that I'm the most advanced tech in the galaxy right now already, and I think some of the AI players would deal really poorly, I've just held off.
I find it more fun to wait until one of the AI players research it, so I'm less prepared and it's more of a surprise.

 

[Duuk]

If it's still early game and I'm near a Keepers of Knowledge, I'll wait.

 

[Hapchazzard]

I've ignored any red tech that's popped up so far.

I have avoided the tech as well. I've only had Sentient AI pop up a few times, but as I'm pretty sure that I'm the most advanced tech in the galaxy right now already, and I think some of the AI players would deal really poorly, I've just held off.
I find it more fun to wait until one of the AI players research it, so I'm less prepared and it's more of a surprise.

Interesting, I got the impression that dangerous tech is something you almost always take as soon as you can, considering it's rarity and it's really, really good bonuses(+10% research speed? POPs that get a +20% bonus to everything they do? Access to arguably the best combat computer/FTL tech in the game? Count me in!). Based on what I've seen so far, the AI uprising is really, really underwhelming even if it starts somewhere else and has time to pick up the pace before getting crushed by the player. The far worse thing IMO about the AI uprising is the fact that synths/droids/robots become practically disabled permanently after it starts, not the uprising itself.

If it's still early game and I'm near a Keepers of Knowledge, I'll wait.

Yeah, as I said, that seems like one of the only major reasons. Something I've always wondered - why don't the Keepers care if you research jump drives? Are they oblivious to the catastrophe that may happen if they are overused?

 

[Secret Master]

I have never gotten a red technology at a point where I felt threatened by FEs, so I never say no.

I have refrained from researching a red technology before, but not because of its danger or Keepers of Knowledge I got the Jump Drive option at one point, but I was running worm holes and remembered my harsh lesson from the last time I had jump drives: I couldn't jump around borders like I could with a worm hole.

So, long story short, I refrained because I just didn't want the tech in general. It had nothing to do with FEs or the danger.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

So far I have not research red AI techs. It just hasn't been a thing I've felt that I needed to do.

 

[MN121MN]

In my first playthrough (which I"m still combing through), I didn't choose red techs as soon as they appear, mainly because the Unbidden is spawning near me and my empire borders the Keepers of Knowledge.

Suffice to say once I amassed enough power and eliminate those pesky FEs, no tech is forbidden for me.

 

[Hapchazzard]

I have never gotten a red technology at a point where I felt threatened by FEs, so I never say no.

I have refrained from researching a red technology before, but not because of its danger or Keepers of Knowledge I got the Jump Drive option at one point, but I was running worm holes and remembered my harsh lesson from the last time I had jump drives: I couldn't jump around borders like I could with a worm hole.

So, long story short, I refrained because I just didn't want the tech in general. It had nothing to do with FEs or the danger.

Wait, you can't choose that your ships use wormholes after getting jump drives? I thought you could. Anyway, in my current game I'd bloody kill for those jump drives - controlling half of a huge galaxy while constantly warring with all those coalitions that formed against me is VERY frustrating even with the highest level warp drives. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating it would be handling revolts if they were a serious threat...

So far I have not research red AI techs. It just hasn't been a thing I've felt that I needed to do.

First time I got sentient AI, I mainly researched it for the +10% research boost. After that, I researched synths just because it seemed like the natural thing to do, even if I wasn't planning on using them intensively. I was honestly more interested in the sentient AI combat computer. But after I started using synths a bit, I really started to like them - those +20% output bonuses end up being very important. I usually put my synths as researchers, and organics as everything else. The +20% research output in addition to the +10% research speed from sentient AI itself ends up speeding your research up very nicely. Since you're most likely a materialist if you have sentient AI(which ALSO speeds your research up), then you can become practically unrivaled in terms of tech.

In my first playthrough (which I"m still combing through), I didn't choose red techs as soon as they appear, mainly because the Unbidden is spawning near me and my empire borders the Keepers of Knowledge.

Suffice to say once I amassed enough power and eliminate those pesky FEs, no tech is forbidden for me.

What year is it? Since the Unbidden have arrived, I'll assume sometime around the 2350s. If so, and you have a relatively large empire, you can most likely take the FE head-on already, even if it says they are superior. In one of my games, I was able to take out a small FE before 2300 with a 40k fleet using kinetics and warp. They're awful at making tactical decisions, so you can quite easily beat them by outsmarting them.

 

[MN121MN]

What year is it? Since the Unbidden have arrived, I'll assume sometime around the 2350s. If so, and you have a relatively large empire, you can most likely take the FE head-on already, even if it says they are superior. In one of my games, I was able to take out a small FE before 2300 with a 40k fleet using kinetics and warp. They're awful at making tactical decisions, so you can quite easily beat them by outsmarting them.

The problem's not only on the tech level (I'm specialized mostly on torpedoes and missiles, and using hypdelanes), but the ability to maintain such fleets since I'm running quite a big energy deficit. Secondly, the FE only had 2 ringworlds, which meant concentrated defense. My fleet was strong enough to fight the FE, but at that capacity ... I'd rather sacrifice my federation member's fleet.

 

[Ragnar89]

I always research a red tech when it show up, otherwise where is the fun?

 

[balmung60]

AI and synths, I reseach immediately, but I usually hold off on jump drive until I'm ready.

My experience is that AI is harmless and never actually triggers its crisis and has ab easy way to 100% prevent it, while jump drive ALWAYS causes the Unbidden invasion, and quickly.

Yeah, as I said, that seems like one of the only major reasons. Something I've always wondered - why don't the Keepers care if you research jump drives? Are they oblivious to the catastrophe that may happen if they are overused?

Overused? Try used even slightly. Just given that fallen empires exist, I'm surprised that the Unbidden don't invade every 20 years or so.

 

[ParagonExile]

I select red techs 100% of the time. I also use a mod that causes all three crises to spawn at the same time.

MAXIMUM CHAOS, MAXIMUM FUN

 

[Hapchazzard]

The problem's not only on the tech level (I'm specialized mostly on torpedoes and missiles, and using hypdelanes), but the ability to maintain such fleets since I'm running quite a big energy deficit. Secondly, the FE only had 2 ringworlds, which meant concentrated defense. My fleet was strong enough to fight the FE, but at that capacity ... I'd rather sacrifice my federation member's fleet.

Hm, about the energy deficit - is your fleet mainly composed of corvettes and destroyers, or battleships and cruisers? If it is the former, consider changing to the latter - fleets of a large amount of smaller ships seem far more energy draining than fleets composed of a small number of battleships and cruisers(plus, the latter are much less annoying to build). Just remember to stack capacitors on your large ships, and you should be good to go.

As for the fact that they have just two systems - in my experience, FEs play really aggressively. In the game I mentioned earlier, they had only one system + 4 16k fleets. I built a subspace snare fortress in my home system and parked my 40k fleet on top of it. The fools just blindly charged a 16k fleet straight into it, and I decimated it. After that failed, they decided to send two separate 16k fleets to harass and overrun my outlying systems. Initially I tried to hunt them down, but them having jump drive and me having warp drive made it go as bad as you would expect.

I eventually just decided to charge at their capital. They only left a single 16k there plus a few forts. After I dispatched those, those 16k fleets that were raiding my outer systems came back separate from each other, and I decimated both in separate battles. So, unless you have an overwhelming advantage in terms of numbers(in which case you can invade their capital anyway), you can most likely count on them charging straight at you and leaving their home system lightly defended.

I always research a red tech when it show up, otherwise where is the fun?

I second this XD. Though it may be suicidal if you've got a Keeper near you, and you're early in the game.

AI and synths, I reseach immediately, but I usually hold off on jump drive until I'm ready.

My experience is that AI is harmless and never actually triggers its crisis and has ab easy way to 100% prevent it, while jump drive ALWAYS causes the Unbidden invasion, and quickly.

Overused? Try used even slightly. Just given that fallen empires exist, I'm surprised that the Unbidden don't invade every 20 years or so.

Even if it does rebel, it's usually very weak and easily crushed. Ordinary jump drives aren't really that dangerous - they make the MTTH for the Unbidden 200 years or so. It's the PSI jump drives that are really dangerous - they make the MTTH just 20 years, or even less if you got the Wanderlust event near the beginning.

As for the FEs - I always assumed they use some safe version of the Jump drives, not these prototypical unsafe versions us mere mortals use.

I select red techs 100% of the time. I also use a mod that causes all three crises to spawn at the same time.

MAXIMUM CHAOS, MAXIMUM FUN

I'll have to try that mod sooner or later, I feel...

 

[Chaos_TLW]

I've passed sentient AI up once or twice due to having other techs I more urgently wanted, but other than that, no. Then again I've never spawned near a KKeeper of Knowledge FE, my only two really long-term games so far only had Xenophile, Spiritualist and Xenophobe FEs.

 

[siegeforvictory]

depends on the situation. so far I've always researched the AI-tech, since I don't have any robots, droids or synths, so it's just a free 10% research.

but the jumpdrive I find underwhelming compared to wormholes, and the one time I got the unbidden I couldn't beat them at all(I just unlocked battleships and build my first few, I had around 10k fleet, didn't even have jumpdrives come up yet), so in my last game I waited with researching jumpdrives till after I got the AI-uprising(which was really weak). still didn't equip them on any ships till way later, and I never used the ships with jumpdrives that I eventually build.

I did have keepers of knowledge somewhat closeby, but the penalty from AI-tech was only -100, so easily offset with a diplomat.

 

[kazper]

PSI Jump Drives are SO worth calling the Unbidden. The only reason not to take that tech ASAP is if you specifically want to get another end game crisis (achievements/variation). Of course the AI might still trigger it. Also I'm unsure if researching the tech or building anything that use it that risk triggering the crisis?

Normal Jump Drives are more meh to me. Depends on what you already have...

Synthetic AI and Synths I always take, but then I usually have Robots banned until I've dealt with the Keepers of Knowledge (if present) so it causes me no problems. I just figure they're rare techs too so why not grab them. It's nice that as long as you ban robots the KoK don't give a rat's ass what techs you research

 

[Kagemusha]

I've ignored any red tech that's popped up so far.

Same here ... I always had good alternatives

 

[Biologist]

Weird. Everyone here seems to agree that jump drives result in a crisis almost immediately, but I've been using Psi Jump Drives on one of my games for about 10 years now with no issues. Is there a significant amount of variance in the amount of time it takes for the event to fire, or is my game possibly bugged? Also I haven't seen either of the other crises yet, although I did sign the AI Accord and grant synths full rights.

 

[Hapchazzard]

I've passed sentient AI up once or twice due to having other techs I more urgently wanted, but other than that, no. Then again I've never spawned near a KKeeper of Knowledge FE, my only two really long-term games so far only had Xenophile, Spiritualist and Xenophobe FEs.

Yeah, it seems like the Keepers are the rarest type of FE(they can only spawn on ringworlds, and even then only have a 25% chance). I haven't had them in a serious game either(well, actually, in my current game I've learned that the Beacon of Infinity is on the other side of the galaxy through star charts, but I've never been able to get there due to border access issues so I can't say for certain whether it's a keeper or a xenophobe, but judging by the fact that I haven't been contacted yet despite researching synths and there is a MASSIVE empty, non-colonized zone around the Beacon, I'd say it's the latter).

depends on the situation. so far I've always researched the AI-tech, since I don't have any robots, droids or synths, so it's just a free 10% research.

but the jumpdrive I find underwhelming compared to wormholes, and the one time I got the unbidden I couldn't beat them at all(I just unlocked battleships and build my first few, I had around 10k fleet, didn't even have jumpdrives come up yet), so in my last game I waited with researching jumpdrives till after I got the AI-uprising(which was really weak). still didn't equip them on any ships till way later, and I never used the ships with jumpdrives that I eventually build.

I did have keepers of knowledge somewhat closeby, but the penalty from AI-tech was only -100, so easily offset with a diplomat.

Yeah, the 10% research boost from sentient AI is really, really nice and is worth getting even if you don't plan on using synths. And it'll only piss the Keepers off if you have your AI policy set to allowed - if you outlaw it(which you should do if you aren't using robots anyway), they'll have no problems with it.

PSI Jump Drives are SO worth calling the Unbidden. The only reason not to take that tech ASAP is if you specifically want to get another end game crisis (achievements/variation). Of course the AI might still trigger it. Also I'm unsure if researching the tech or building anything that use it that risk triggering the crisis?

Normal Jump Drives are more meh to me. Depends on what you already have...

Synthetic AI and Synths I always take, but then I usually have Robots banned until I've dealt with the Keepers of Knowledge (if present) so it causes me no problems. I just figure they're rare techs too so why not grab them. It's nice that as long as you ban robots the KoK don't give a rat's ass what techs you research

I never knew that PSI jump drives were so much better than regular jump drives, I thought they only had a slightly bigger range.

As for outlawing AI - yes, that seems like a nice way to grab sentient AI without pissing off a powerful FE. It would probably only be problematic if you heavily relied on robots and droids for mining purposes, but even that effect would be a temporary setback at worst.

Same here ... I always had good alternatives

Eh, this late in the game, I'm not really sure what sort of good alternatives would there even be(except particle/tachyon lances, of course. Considering how powerful they are, I find it odd that they aren't classified as a rare technology).

Weird. Everyone here seems to agree that jump drives result in a crisis almost immediately, but I've been using Psi Jump Drives on one of my games for about 10 years now with no issues. Is there a significant amount of variance in the amount of time it takes for the event to fire, or is my game possibly bugged? Also I haven't seen either of the other crises yet, although I did sign the AI Accord and grant synths full rights.

Well, the MTTH for the Unbidden if you have PSI jump drives is 20 years, so you still have around 10 years left. Or is it if you have both jump drive technologies?