Is there any way to determine the personnel size of armies? Analysis

[Dr Pippy]

Worthwhile it may be if it increases their enjoyment of the game, but correct it is most certainly not. Trying to derive meaning by overranalyzing a system that was not designed to model realistic populations in the first place is an exercise in futility.

A fair point; "correct" is not really the right word; perhaps "self-consistent" is about the best you can hope for. But there is a surprisingly large group of people who kind of enjoy this sort of useless nerdy over-analysis (myself included, and see also a good chunk of, e.g., the Star Trek and Star Wars fandoms). Certainly it's understandable that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really appreciate seeing this sort of thing and would be sad to see it die out.

 

[Cordane]

First off, folks are obviously right that this is an absurd thing to try and calculate and anyone who tries is wasting their time and should get back to work. Now having said that, here’s how I would do it:

The U.S. spends around 3% of GDP on its military to keep around 0.3% of its population employed.

1 energy is probably what, 0.5% of GDP? So let’s say the army is 0.05% of the population (counting support personnel etc.) or 10 million people.

United States 2021 estimated population was 332 million, while combined active duty, reserve, national guard, and (most of the) civilian employees of the five uniform services (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force - missing civilian numbers for last two) amount to around 2,870,000, or around 0.86% of the population. US federal budget for 2021 fiscal year included $705.4B for Department of Defense, compared to $22.99T in US GDP, or about 3.07%.

Also, the ~3% of US GDP doesn't keep just the soldiers, sailors, etc., of the US military employed, it also employs defense contractors, local businesses outside of military bases, etc., and does some of that around the globe, not just in the US.

 

[MatthewP]

United States 2021 estimated population was 332 million, while combined active duty, reserve, national guard, and (most of the) civilian employees of the five uniform services (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force - missing civilian numbers for last two) amount to around 2,870,000, or around 0.86% of the population. US federal budget for 2021 fiscal year included $705.4B for Department of Defense, compared to $22.99T in US GDP, or about 3.07%.

Also, the ~3% of US GDP doesn't keep just the soldiers, sailors, etc., of the US military employed, it also employs defense contractors, local businesses outside of military bases, etc., and does some of that around the globe, not just in the US.

I was using the numbers for active duty personnel. You’re right that to get a truly accurate count, one would need to do a more in-depth analysis which would probably look at multiple countries, try to figure out the best analogs for a space assault army and analyze their cost and size. And hours or days or years later, the result of that analysis would be maybe 10% less completely made up than mine

 

[Strangedane]

I was using the numbers for active duty personnel. You’re right that to get a truly accurate count, one would need to do a more in-depth analysis which would probably look at multiple countries, try to figure out the best analogs for a space assault army and analyze their cost and size. And hours or days or years later, the result of that analysis would be maybe 10% less completely made up than mine

Never trust a statistical analysis you didn't forge yourself.

-statistical analysis teacher

 

[WeeBigTerd101]

First off, folks are obviously right that this is an absurd thing to try and calculate and anyone who tries is wasting their time and should get back to work.

Maybe I like spending my time trying to figure out absurd things ok?

 

[MatthewP]

Maybe I like spending my time trying to figure out absurd things ok?

Haha me too. If it’s not clear it was meant to be quite tongue in cheek. This is a forum for a game after all; the goal is to waste time enjoyably.

 

[Dementor4]

The UN projections for the human population by 2200 is about 12,000,000,000. If we divide that by the number of pops the UNE starts with a pop is 375 million for humans. Obviously, other creatures that number would be different. Small aliens, they'd have a higher population and large aliens would have a lower population. In the game, you can only recruit as many normal armies as there are pops of that species in your empire.

And obviously, entire pops aren't getting recruited, so is there any way to know the percentage of pop getting recruited? Is there any way to find the size of an army?

Method 1: Time
The Base growth of a pop at the beginning of the game is 3 points per month and 100 points are needed to complete the growth of a pop. This means it takes about 33.3 months to grow a pop, which is about 1000 days. An assault army takes only 90 takes to recruit. (90/1000)*375,000,000 is 33.75 million. Answer 1: A Human assault army is 33.75 million people.

Method 2: Upkeep
A fortress creates three defense armies and the building has an upkeep of 1 energy. About 40% of the military budget of the united states goes to personnel. So each defense army costs about 0.133 energy credits. The Base food upkeep of a pop is 1 food and at the beginning of the game technicians and farmers produce the same amount of energy and food. 0.133*375,000,000=49.9875 million. Answer 2: a human army is about 50 million

If you average it out (again assuming many things, and rounding) an Army is about 41.875 million.

So at the beginning of the game, as the UNE you'll only be able to recruit 32 because that's Earth's population. So 32 armies is about 1,340,000,000 people. Which is about 11.1666% of your population and one army is the same. Again there are many assumptions and probably flaws in my logic but those are the only ways I could think of.

I marked your post "helpful" because I adore these discussions. Most people seem to hate them. But I got you bro.

You might have better luck looking at the "WWII" earth you can sometimes find. We know how many soldiers were in service during WWII, so comparing the number of armies on the planet when you find it to that historical number might get you some better data.

 

[Silesian Burd]

Each army is an entire Hearts of Iron 4 faction, which just-so-happens to be lead by the same General as everyone else.

My source is pre-FTL planets, specifically HOI4 Earth.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I marked your post "helpful" because I adore these discussions. Most people seem to hate them. But I got you bro.

You might have better luck looking at the "WWII" earth you can sometimes find. We know how many soldiers were in service during WWII, so comparing the number of armies on the planet when you find it to that historical number might get you some better data.

there are 2 armies, i understand. one on each side. haven't seen it personally

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Pretty sure the WW2 armies are the US Army, Royal Army, Wehrmacht, and Japanese Imperial Army.

Early Space Age Earth also has uniquely named armies. I believe they’re US Army East, US Army West, and uh…? I want to say China, Russia, and the EU are represented too, but it’s been awhile since I looked.

 

[Sutopia]

Devs: puts in some random numbers
Players: try to make sense of random numbers