Is there any reason to use anything other than Heavy Ships in stand-up naval battles?

[Asa_TJ]

Assuming that this battle isn't taking place in an inland sea, is there any reason to consider fleet composition? I know Army Composition is very important, and I feel like I finally have that nailed down. But it seems like the best strategy for naval warfare is just, "Have more heavy ships. Win."

Obviously transports are needed to move troops around, and Light Ships help your trade when not at war. So they're all valuable. But I'm asking about strictly in a battle scenario.

 

[joelzhl]

Heavy ship is for maximizing your naval power with limited naval force limit. They are not really economical to use. If you outnumber the enemy 3-1 or more, light ship is probably the best. If you are fighting against someone with more naval force limit than you do, building more heavy ships might be a good idea.

 

[Asa_TJ]

So assuming money is no issue, and I can field 50 Heavy Ships or 50 Light Ships without going into the red, 50 Heavy is the better option?

 

[sinkingmist]

Army composition is balancing purely for combat.
Naval composition is balancing between trade and firepower.

If you want maximum firepower only, then yes, spam heavy ships.
e.g. If you're France planning an invasion on England, you can quite easily beat an AI English navy (who should have naval forcelimits much higher than you) by just spamming heavy ships.

Typically I build just enough heavies to ensure naval superiority in any wars that happen, and build lights otherwise.

 

[Asa_TJ]

Army composition is balancing purely for combat.
Naval composition is balancing between trade and firepower.

Ah, that makes sense. Sounds like it's all heavy all the way then. I can worry about trade when my enemies' bones are being picked clean at the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Sun_Wu]

Ah, that makes sense. Sounds like it's all heavy all the way then. I can worry about trade when my enemies' bones are being picked clean at the bottom of the ocean.

Light Ships often pay for themselves thereby allowing you to have many many more.

 

[DasWood]

maneuver helps ships engage sooner. So there is some point on light ships. I have won a few battles taking very minimal losses with light ships only. I do not remember the specifics however.

 

[joelzhl]

Also, consider the fact that heavy ships cost 5x more to maintain than light ships and 12.5x more than gallery, you can field many more light/galleries. Usually if you have 5 light ships to 1 heavy ship, the light ship will always win.

 

[grumphie]

Light Ships often pay for themselves thereby allowing you to have many many more.

^ this. if money is no issue at all, go ahead and spam them. if it is(which it should or you really wouldnt have any problems beating your opponent wathever you build as long as you spam it) light ships are still fairly decent in battle but with them increasing trade pwoer can pay for themselves multiple times if the trad enode is rich enough. i persoanlly (Bar playing naval powers such as portugal or england) make a few light ships initially to up my income, then as money and forcelimits allow start increasing my fleet of ships in a way where at least 75% of my upkeep is payed for by trade, build heavy ships until i have an equal amount+5/10/20(depending ons ize) than the largest alliance has in heavy ships, while keeping an large number of light ships to steer trade my way and keep income high. if im playing fairly colonial in asia as well, i have an fleet seperate form the main fleet stationed there following the same rules to avoid moving fleets all over the world all the time.

 

[Sun_Wu]

Also, consider the fact that heavy ships cost 5x more to maintain than light ships and 12.5x more than gallery, you can field many more light/galleries. Usually if you have 5 light ships to 1 heavy ship, the light ship will always win.

with luck and skill the light ships will be breaking even allowing you to have a ratio more like 10:1

 

[saied_88]

Keep in mind that one of the key factors that decide naval battles is 'positioning'. Positioning determines how many of your 'cannons' are firing at any one time so to speak. This is determined by the average speed of all the vessels in your fleet and the maneuver ability of your admiral if you have one. So mixing in some light ships into a fleet of heavy ships will definitely help your cause because it brings up the average speed of your fleet.

However, in general it is the heavy ships that will win you naval battles because of their superior firepower and stronger hulls (meaning they last longer and inflict more damage).

Try to mix in some light ships into a big fleet of heavy ships.

 

[jockedahl]

No.

I wish the naval system was redone though. I wish it was more like victoria 2s edited system where you actually see ships approaching eachother and sinking. And then ships would actually die eventhough you won. Right now the damage is like spread out somehow.

I'd rather have paradox add in another ship type between the lightship and the heavy and nerf the light ships slightly.

 

[Cavalry]

- If I have sizable sea trade, then most of them will be light ship + some heavy ship, and maint. at max all the time.
- If I am a nation with a small navy just for coastal defense, then it will be heavy ship or galley, and the maint will be at min at peace. Galley is more cost effective for inland sea.

When the big battle begin, throwing every nearby ship you have, even the transports!

 

[gaius valerius]

I'd say you look at who is your contender on the seas. No need to spam 50 heavy ships if say your closest opponent only has 20, right? So I'd only field the necessary amount of heavies to be on par or perhaps 1-5 above my closest contender, while otherwise sticking to light ships, which have decent firepower and greatly improve your profits when on trade node duty;

 

[AnguyTheArcher]

I only use smaller light squadron to catch and pin down an enemy. Sometimes it is frustrating to chase enemy all around the map, not to mention you can be lured out of position and some fleet can sneak through and cause problems on other side of ocean (ravage your mostly light fleets protecting your trade). So I when I see enemy I detach my light ships and send them after him. There should be enough of them so that he's distracted until my heavies arrive.
But otherwise I almost never use combined fleet in battle even when superior, because damaged light ships need repair and that means your trade will go down for some time.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Something to keep in mind is that fleets on trade duty gain naval tradition for your country. Naval tradition increases the morale of your fleet. And naval battles are almost always decided on morale.

If you build all combat ships and leave them at minimum manitenance in port, you will have almost no naval tradition. Your navy will vastly underperform one from a nation with decent naval tradition.

So those light ships on trade duty aren't just making you money. They're also slowly increasing your maximum morale, which makes a huge difference. Completely neglecting light ships and trade is rarely a good idea for a naval power, even with all the increased power of heavies.

 

[Wardok]

I tend to balance out my fleets with a mix of light and Heavy. i don't like building only one type.

 

[pharaomatic]

No doubt the big ships hit the hardest in naval battles, but as others here are saying, there's a lot of other factors to consider.

Heavy ships is quite a big investment in gold and in the early game getting 1500 gold to pay 30 Carracks, that will be obsolete in 50 years and eat upkeep meanwhile, can be too much.

The light ships that patrol my trade nodes, I usually send home to my main fleet in wartime and then use them for blockades or naval battles with my big fleet. They're faster than big ships and good at catching the enemies smaller fleets.

 

[emilsson]

I have no numbers to back this up, but all the games I've played have left me with the impression that a few light ships can handle a single heavy ship in the early game, but in the mid and late game this becomes increasingly difficult. So I tend to avoid building Early Carracks and Carracks, and wait for the technology to build Galleons.