Is there any hope for 1.20 China Patch?

[Zerodv]

I am not talking about actually explaining things otherwise only Discovery of the New World would even be in the list until WW2. I am talking about it coming up at all.

To give an example. The Roman Empire fell leaving everything around a mess then at some point Muslims conquered Jerusalem(never said from who) eventually leading to the Crusades which were a series of wars waged by Christians to get it their control which ultimately failed. I am not summarizing, that is literally what I know about the Middle Ages from school.

I like history and until I started learning for myself I didn't even know things like the Holy Roman Empire or the caliphates existed.

I know what you mean, but when I read the actual books I used at school they are quite complete in their explanation(so it means that in a way the programme includes a complete chronological explanation) and while there are missing rings the main problem was at least as I understand lack of time. Maybe time was just not used efficiently. I live in Europe though, about America we hear only the revolution, civil war and World war 2.

Good examples. Then you have Indian empires, like the Bahmanis, which disintegrated into separate kingdoms due to failed wars against Vijayanagar. In game, war exhaustion and unrest just don't have such far reaching. I think they should, for a more dynamic play, where empires rise and fall.
I know that ruins the idea of world conquest. I don't care.

Oh yes, I forgot to say that Europe actually is a region with quite less separatism being present compared to other places, mostly because there were other mechanism, mostly diplomatical and logistical, that stopped Europeans from taking over large swaths of potentially rebellious neighbours(the new world had those but of course the resistance could be only that strong). Just look at how relatively little France expanded, during this era France expanded his Eastern borders of like 200 kms, in this era the Mughal Empire arose and fell, not even filling the complete time span with its lifetime.

Conquer, or interact with.
What if you, as a European power, could negotiate trade rights from Asian nations, not only wage war against them all. Could be interesting, in my view.

Exactly, the takeover of India was mostly diplomatical(mostly but of course there was a military aspect to it, but that was mostly naval). The leverage Europeans had on Asia and Africa was economical and diplomatical, hardly was it from their direct military potential(that was of course tied in Europe against other Europeans). It would be kinda what Portugal did in the last Dev MP games, even if that is way too much leverage.

 

[Dakka]

So... Asian ship model renders on today's DD. Maybe Asia will get some love this patch after all?

 

[fred.erick]

So... Asian ship model renders on today's DD. Maybe Asia will get some love this patch after all?

I hope it will make many people happy

 

[Louis.C.Fair]

It will certainly make me happy. In regards to units, I'm crossing my fingers for upgraded Ming units and Qing bannermen (<--- a nice blog about Ming military)

What is Paradox's "policy" on unit and fleet models anyway? Are they supposed to be broadly representative of the country's historical army or are we looking at certain, famous military formations?

 

[Merovingio]

It will certainly make me happy. In regards to units, I'm crossing my fingers for upgraded Ming units and Qing bannermen (<--- a nice blog about Ming military)

What is Paradox's "policy" on unit and fleet models anyway? Are they supposed to be broadly representative of the country's historical army or are we looking at certain, famous military formations?

The link doesn't work.

 

[Grand Historian]

So... Asian ship model renders on today's DD. Maybe Asia will get some love this patch after all?

I'm hoping it's more than just a content pack and that they're actually diversifying ship types. No more Chinese Carracks in 1444.

 

[Dakka]

What is Paradox's "policy" on unit and fleet models anyway? Are they supposed to be broadly representative of the country's historical army or are we looking at certain, famous military formations?

I don't think it leans any particular way. Britain T3 are Grenadiers, while French t3 are regular line. I think they go with whatever is distinctive and neat looking

 

[wingzero890]

I'm hoping it's more than just a content pack and that they're actually diversifying ship types. No more Chinese Carracks in 1444.

It would be nice to have ships divided by tech group. Big difference between a korean turtle ship and a spanish caravel..

 

[Grand Historian]

It would be nice to have ships divided by tech group. Big difference between a korean turtle ship and a spanish caravel..

Yep. It also means we can finally give primitives war canoes for transports without them being able to form the Spanish Armada before actually meeting the Spanish.

 

[fred.erick]

Yep. It also means we can finally give primitives war canoes for transports without them being able to form the Spanish Armada before actually meeting the Spanish.

Or after meeting the Spanish, for at least 400 years.
Don't go there, though. We've talked about this. Everybody could build carracks at 1444 - a few zebra hides, a hint of cardamom, some voodoo, and voile! An oceangoing war vessel.

Edit:
I thought I'd check if Veritas et Fortitudo have already tried varied ship types, since they added a LOT of unique unit types (which I don't know if the AI handles well.)

In their wiki it says, "In the upcoming version 1.2 of VeF a major change to ships will be introduced. Instead of everyone having the same ships they will depend on what tech group you belong it. This allows using native ship types or in certain cases have the same ship type with different stats, i.e. to help small very trade focused nations their ships might have slightly more trade power."
I think the wiki is out of date though, so I'll try to download the latest version and check there. If anybody should have oceangoing vessels except the Europeans in this time frame, it is the far-east countries (and the Ottomans, I guess.)

 

[Louis.C.Fair]

The link doesn't work.

Fixed

I recently bought Vic2 and the Qing empire has been split into administrative regions there. Is there any reason the same could not be done in regard to China in EU4? Manchus didn't conquer the whole of China at one go after all. Reading this thread, it seems that the suggestions for China range from splitting it in administrative regions, creating a proper faction/estate system or overhauling stability altogether.

 

[Zerodv]

Fixed

I recently bought Vic2 and the Qing empire has been split into administrative regions there. Is there any reason the same could not be done in regard to China in EU4? Manchus didn't conquer the whole of China at one go after all. Reading this thread, it seems that the suggestions for China range from splitting it in administrative regions, creating a proper faction/estate system or overhauling stability altogether.

It´s just unhistorical and the effort in creating such system could be put in creating a system challenging for a united China.

 

[Dakka]

From Johan's Twitter. Yay, Asia provinces!
So between this and Asian ship renders... Asia DLC confirmed?

 

[Grand Historian]

View attachment 229967
From Johan's Twitter. Yay, Asia provinces!
So between this and Asian ship renders... Asia DLC confirmed?

Well, I choose the perfect time to finish my Japan overhaul...

 

[Grand Historian]

View attachment 229967
From Johan's Twitter. Yay, Asia provinces!
So between this and Asian ship renders... Asia DLC confirmed?

Although, looking at it more closely now, I only see a few new Steppe provinces...

 

[Katsuki126]

Mhm. I think a general rework of Stability would be good for this; I believe it would be safe to say it's a bit on the easy side to maintain a large empire, especially late

Well, what about making stability cost modifier scale with the number of provinces ? (and not development to encourage inward perfection) Or any state above a state cap slowly, but surely, give modifier to the stability cost modifier. Thus blobbing terribly would still be possible, but you would have to cope with the consequences. Ming will be struggling internally should it want to expand. As far as I know, huge empire usually had trouble maintaining themselves in the very long run, Mughals, Ming easy conquest by Qing, Qing fall (out of the timeframe though), late Ottomans, Timurids etc...
That way a stab hit would be desastrous for a massive empire.

 

[Katsuki126]

Although, looking at it more closely now, I only see a few new Steppe provinces...

Trin Tragula said in this very thread that a complete overhaul of East Asia would take far more work than Denmark patch. Maybe they are doing it slowly, redrawing the map (and there is a lot to redraw) over several patches before implementing new mechanics. At least, this is my secret hope

 

[Mingmung]

As long as mechanics are not punishing, then I'm happy.


Mechanics should be fun. (Difficult to explain what 'fun' is, but maybe start with different positive options somewhere)

Estates are arguably a "good" mechanism: various events and bonuses are a great way to make the game more fun. (As long as you don't get a negative event-streak)

I really hate -stab events for example. Monarchpoints are spend on too much things already in my opinion without there being many practical alternatives to get them if you are unlucky. Those admin-points are damn valuable, son.

 

[Grand Historian]

Well, what about making stability cost modifier scale with the number of provinces ? (and not development to encourage inward perfection) Or any state above a state cap slowly, but surely, give modifier to the stability cost modifier. Thus blobbing terribly would still be possible, but you would have to cope with the consequences. Ming will be struggling internally should it want to expand. As far as I know, huge empire usually had trouble maintaining themselves in the very long run, Mughals, Ming easy conquest by Qing, Qing fall (out of the timeframe though), late Ottomans, Timurids etc...
That way a stab hit would be desastrous for a massive empire.

Could work, though I'd also want to see something less binary in terms of Stability myself (something more indepth beyond a -/+3 scale).

 

[Mingmung]

Could work, though I'd also want to see something less binary in terms of Stability myself (something more indepth beyond a -/+3 scale).

I don't want to be obliged to keep 500 admin points in reserve. As you said, it's too binary.

Mechanics should be engaging. Options are key.

Monarch-personalities are fun for example. Events are nice, as well as giving you alternative options in some otherwise negative events.