Is there any benefit to Vassals?

[hersenmail]

I read in the wiki that you get some naval capacity?

I've yet to see that. Do they have to have a certain amount of capacity before they give any?

I'm on 555a, I believe, so maybe it's a bug?

 

[Promethian]

They are supposed to be a way to convert territory into fleet power without increasing your admin. Vassals are supposed to send their fleet to join yours in war. I admit I haven't tested this functionality to see if it works in the most recent version and there have been significant periods of time in the past where it did not. I think I have a save where I can test this though so I really should check.

 

[hersenmail]

The vassals have been joining my wars, sure. But they arrive after the war is over, and do I need to rely on the AI? Or will they follow my fleets?

 

[Timjames]

You can use vassals as buffer states between your own Empire and enemies, so that when the enemy declares war your vassals get ravaged instead of you.

 

[Promethian]

There is a button where you can designate which of your fleets they will follow on the individual fleet's infopanel. I just tested it and they do send them. You can even see their orders if you select them. They do not send ships created after you declare war though. It seems there is a follow command given at the start of the war and that is it.

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

They are supposed to be a way to convert territory into fleet power without increasing your admin. Vassals are supposed to send their fleet to join yours in war.

You can use vassals as buffer states between your own Empire and enemies, so that when the enemy declares war your vassals get ravaged instead of you.

These factors alone can make vassals worthwhile.

It can also be a relatively quick way to gain control over large swathes of territory which can later be integrated for direct control, only without the unrest etc of direct conquest.

It's still very situationally dependent, and I haven't played vassal heavy in the current patch, but I think the removal of the domination tree requirement for vassals is a huge improvement. In my opinion this requirement had completely gimped vassals for a while, as the tree was completely useless for anything other than vassal heavy play, I always left it till last and only really wanted the AP from completion. By that time I had completely bypassed the entire phase of the game where vassals were actually useful.

The new megacorps empire type has access to a new subsidiary vassal which is definitely beneficial to them. 25% tax on their energy income and opens their planets to establish branch offices. With the steeper penalty a megacorp faces for going over admin cap the use of subsidiaries seems like it might be invaluable for dominating the galaxy.

Edit: forgot to mention the humble tributary can be excellent for boosting your economy at the expense of someone you don't want to conquer just yet. It will help keep them weak and you strong until you do want to finish them.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

As far as I know vassals lose the difficulty based resource bonus and their economy just tanks, making them worthless depending on difficulty.

This may be out of date info..

 

[Avil]

As far as I know vassals lose the difficulty based resource bonus and their economy just tanks, making them worthless depending on difficulty.

This may be out of date info..

It's still there.


Funny case. My first campaign was "feudal empire". I've made a vassal from single sector and let them do his thing. I got lucky and there was no close neghbors near my vassal. But vassal took very long time to build his fleet. When he finally did, it was utterly pathetic, plus he somehow managed to lose it very shortly after (I think, due to their usual derpy pathing through space creatures). But when war is started, my vassal hired a maradeur party and actually managed to be useful... It really cracked me up.

Also in current patch vassals don't have opinion malus from fleet size. Or maybe they're just unable to accumulate enough to get even -1.

 

[th3freakie]

As far as I know vassals lose the difficulty based resource bonus and their economy just tanks, making them worthless depending on difficulty

That's hilarious

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

That's hilarious

I thought so too at first,

Then I realised it was another example of the horrific AI shutting off yet another play style for this game

 

[Pyoro]

I like making small vassals, because I dislike wiping empires off the map. It just feels more "realistic" that empires as distant and advanced as interstellar ones would end up in some sort of vassalage that gets slowly integrated than outright, territorial conquest, typically.

But without their production boni they are just useless. I can't think of a single case where you aren't better off controlling them yourself. Maybe if you just leave them a very small planet and a ton of worthless space, to reduce your admin cap. Otherwise it's basically a RP thing.

 

[hersenmail]

I'm on the beta branch (555a) and I don't believe vassals receive the bonus that other AIs do. I'm on commodore, so the independent empires get 50%. My vassal does not have this.

 

[Promethian]

Just a note on vassal economy crashing. I believe that is an old phenomenon that is being carried forward as a myth. I recently conquered a vassal, then integrated it (and re released them, wanted to get rid of their opposing ethics). I got two fleets of about 850 power from them in the integration. I was swinging fleets of about 1.2k power at the time but I did vassalize them because I had out teched and out alloyed them after all. My resource incomes all increased for the period I held onto them as well (though the unity and science admin costs increased more than the gain). Overall I got the impression the vassal was able to adapt just fine to the lower resource penalties. I was also pleased that they were able to swing fleets of non-trival power at that stage of the game.

My only real complaint stems from something else that happened with the above example. After absorbing then re-releasing the vassal, I wasn't able to choose what systems they got. I had to release a full sector. I intended to keep a few select systems from them. I get it, less micro is the goal. However I did not hate the old method of releasing a single planet, then giving them the systems in trade after.

 

[JOD]

Honestly, I find it's more efficient these days to not have vassals but get tributaries instead.

Get tributary, use the new wealth to turn your existing miners/technicians into soldier class pops with the stronghold building. I haven't actually crunched the numbers but it felt like i was seeing better returns this way than trying to use vassals to get my naval capacity up.

 

[Sinister2202]

I find vassals weak to be much of anything else than border buffers, and their fleets a distraction.

 

[Namfuak]

As far as I know vassals lose the difficulty based resource bonus and their economy just tanks, making them worthless depending on difficulty.

This may be out of date info..

That might have been a conscious decision so that it will never be viable on high difficulty to release a vassal, wait for some time and reintegrate them to get more development on the planets they controlled than the player could have on their own. Right now that's a laughable concept since the AI doesn't really know how to handle the new economy, but imagine if the AI started following some meta planet builds by default.

 

[Chillfox]

Subsidiaries are absolutely amazing, especially early-mid game.
Not only do they provide energy, but they also assist in wars, and if they themselves are a megacorp rolling in cash then they will hire fleets for your wars.

I have never had a normal vassal be quite as powerful or useful in war as a megacorp subsidiary. The tributaries, however, are useful.

 

[terberlo]

I was frustrated with the poor vassal fleet performance, too .. I wrote a small mod to help compensate.

If you're interested - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1607382544

 

[Xaelyn]

Free expansion. Integration doesn't cost you any influence atm, despite saying it does.

 

[Alastor]

In my experience vassals aren't particularly useful no. I find them to be too weak and passive to actually matter. Temporarily you can keep them as buffers between you and some powerful neighbor. But all in all it's just meh. My vassal Megacorp wasn't even opening branch offices. I guess good vassals would need a proper diplomacy system and a competent AI, both of which Stellaris is unfortunately woefully lacking in.