Is there any actual fiction out there?

[Keden]

Hey there!

I don't mean to offend anyone by the title, and I know there are AARs and the like out there, but I've been wondering for some time now: is there any form of true fiction out there based on Crusader Kings or any Paradox game for that matter? I realize it seems a bit silly: if you were to write an in-depth story of over 3-400 years of history you'd have thousands upon thousands of pages and years of work ahead of you. But CK2, which is the only Paradox game I own, does offer some amazing starting points for people who'd want to get into writing fictional history (such as myself). And if you played it slow, kept a tight record of how things progress, I'll bet you could make a story out of some 5-10 tumultuous years.

In any case, I ramble: is there anything such as that out there? Fictional stories based on Paradox games?

And on a related note: If there isn't, would you be interested in reading such things?

Thanks in advance

 

[Padre Pio]

You mean published fictional stories? Like real books? Haven't read one yet.

And on a related note: If there isn't, would you be interested in reading such things?

Yes, most definitely. Are you a writer?

 

[Keden]

Not necessarily published (as in paid for) but yes actual fictional stories as in real books or short stories.

And I am an aspiring writer and have been playing with the idea for a while Especially about the point where I've left my current game, with a young boy who inherited the most powerful Duchy in Scotland, and is actually growing up together with the future King of Scotland. Which would just be a fan-tastic starting point for a story where they grow up only to end up growing apart. .

 

[Sian]

the genre you're looking for is Alternate History ... and yes you're not the first one considering it ...

 

[Deaghaidh]

In the past, AARs have spun out into outright fiction without connection to a game. Lord Durham's Free Company epics leap to mind. Don't know if anyone is doing that right now.

Some other big AARs crossed over into works of literature IMHO, Prufrock's HoI AAR To Stand Against The Night probably the best example.

 

[Keden]

the genre you're looking for is Alternate History ... and yes you're not the first one considering it ...

Actually, no, not quite. I'm not looking for someone writing like a history book: that's what alternate history is. Proper fictional stories involve picking a main character, following a plot and features extensive dialogue. I love the alternate histories the game has spawned but I haven't had a chance to read anything that reads like historical fiction (think maybe The Red Queen, CJ Sansom's Matthew Shardlake series, but based on an alternate history spawned from the game.)

To the above, Deaghaidh; I'll definitely check those out.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Actually, no, not quite. I'm not looking for someone writing like a history book: that's what alternate history is. Proper fictional stories involve picking a main character, following a plot and features extensive dialogue. I love the alternate histories the game has spawned but I haven't had a chance to read anything that reads like historical fiction (think maybe The Red Queen, CJ Sansom's Matthew Shardlake series, but based on an alternate history spawned from the game.)

To the above, Deaghaidh; I'll definitely check those out.

They are old, you might have to hunt for them. But neither is the history-book style you are talking about. I'm pretty sure the history-book style AAR has been done (I personally did a history-class one waaaay back in EU1), don't know if anyone is doing it presently. It's a style due for a comeback.

LD and Prufrock both went on to become "real" (as in published) authors IIRC, and I think their work might be what you're looking for. I'm sure there are newer ones but they don't leap to mind.

 

[Portal]

Political strategy, like a Song of Ice and Fire, exists, but dynastic strategy would be impossible.

In literature theory, there is several elements; theme, setting, plot and character. Theme is essentially the moral present in the story. Setting is not simply location, but essentially all background elements. Plot is defined by a protagonist (PoV character, not good guy) pursuing a Story Goal, but is prevented by doing so with a Complication, which he overcomes in a Climax, and resolved in a Resolution. That is the main plot. There are four plots (Main Plot, Character Plot (where the character must choose to change his nature or stay the same after being presented with a dilemma by the impact character), Impact Character Plot (the impact character's personal crisis), and Relationship (the interaction between the protagonist and the impact character)) each subdivided into a Introduction, Complication, Climax and Resolution.

By making a 'dynastic strategy,' you ruin character and plot. You simply cannot have all four plot elements while switching PoV constantly. You cannot empathize with characters as in dynastic strategy people are fundamentally tools.

It is impossible to have a compelling dynastic strategy plot.

However, you COULD have a multitude of political strategy plots in different books making up a series on a particular dynasty. But you would only be able to cover the 'exciting' bits. Pretty much the definition of drama is a key moment in a character's life; you somewhat ruin that by plotting out over 400 years.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Impossible is overstating it, IMHO, but you do nail the key problems. Your best bet would be as a long series of stories with a general overall stroy arc and/or recurring themes.

 

[Keden]

Political strategy, like a Song of Ice and Fire, exists, but dynastic strategy would be impossible.

In literature theory, there is several elements; theme, setting, plot and character. Theme is essentially the moral present in the story. Setting is not simply location, but essentially all background elements. Plot is defined by a protagonist (PoV character, not good guy) pursuing a Story Goal, but is prevented by doing so with a Complication, which he overcomes in a Climax, and resolved in a Resolution. That is the main plot. There are four plots (Main Plot, Character Plot (where the character must choose to change his nature or stay the same after being presented with a dilemma by the impact character), Impact Character Plot (the impact character's personal crisis), and Relationship (the interaction between the protagonist and the impact character)) each subdivided into a Introduction, Complication, Climax and Resolution.

By making a 'dynastic strategy,' you ruin character and plot. You simply cannot have all four plot elements while switching PoV constantly. You cannot empathize with characters as in dynastic strategy people are fundamentally tools.

It is impossible to have a compelling dynastic strategy plot.

However, you COULD have a multitude of political strategy plots in different books making up a series on a particular dynasty. But you would only be able to cover the 'exciting' bits. Pretty much the definition of drama is a key moment in a character's life; you somewhat ruin that by plotting out over 400 years.

I must say I don't care much for a scientific approach to such things. I know all these things to be true but somehow it just tickles me all wrong. I'm more like to just wing it into writing a story and see what ends up well. Instinct above all!

Anyhow, if you'd read my first post, it would've specified that in my example I mentioned only dealing with 5-10 years of tumultuous time built upon a historical setting that was generated by CK2.

Here:

And if you played it slow, kept a tight record of how things progress, I'll bet you could make a story out of some 5-10 tumultuous years.

 

[unmerged(288920)]

I think it is possible. I've played alot of the Paradox games and when you have such good games you can't help but want to write a story about it. Crusader Kings to me, is the perfect game for this because it centers on characters and their lives and stories.

Just writing exactly what goes on in the game can turn out into a story or novel. Considering you spruce it up of course.

 

[tuareg109]

The "Masters of Rome" series by Colleen McCullough, while being set in Ancient Rome, is pretty much the apotheosis of what you're looking for (if I've read the above posts correctly).
It features a large cast of characters--many with similar names, to add confusion (oh, those Romans!)--and an intense, intricate main plot with several subplots craftily woven in between. The 6 books cover a span of 60 years or so, but each book is unique, and some bring back favorite characters from earlier ones (of course, as they still live in Rome).
ABOVE ALL, it is extremely true to actual history. McCullough did her research, and a loose description of its plot can be considered history. The fiction is, of course, the minute interaction between the characters, etc.

Check it out, yo.

 

[thewista]

I didn't read past the 2nd post so sorry if I am repeating something. But if you want historical fiction you can look at Sharon Kay Pennman, she writes around the time of the Third Crusade and Bernard Corwell, The Archer's Tale. I believe his is during the 100 years war. They are solid reads and will whet your appetite for more. I am lazy at the moment and cannot think of others, but I know there are more out there.

As an aside, if you are writing your own, I too write and am always looking for some input.

Edit: The "Masters of Rome" is phenomenal! I just finished "Caesar" for the sixth time and will finish the series by the end of the month. For the sixth time. It is truly one of the historical fiction works that is closer to history than even some history texts.

 

[Keden]

I'll definitely be looking into the above titles as they sound quite wonderful But I would like to add this question was specifically aimed at fictional stories based on the settings as put forth by the Crusader Kings 2 game or other Paradox grand strategy games. -> I'm always on the lookout for great historical fiction, but in this particular instance I was just looking for people who were writing about this game, even just about one character that came along somewhere during a campaign or somewhere. As someone said up there, the sheer amount of personal events and developments that affect any one character in a dynasty is almost enough, with one's own imagination, to come up with an intricate story worthy of a short story, novella or even a full novel. I wondered if anyone had simply already gone on the quest to write such a piece, commercially or even simply as a hobby.

 

[tuareg109]

But if you want historical fiction you can look at Sharon Kay Pennman, she writes around the time of the Third Crusade and Bernard Corwell, The Archer's Tale. I believe his is during the 100 years war.
Edit: The "Masters of Rome" is phenomenal! I just finished "Caesar" for the sixth time and will finish the series by the end of the month. For the sixth time. It is truly one of the historical fiction works that is closer to history than even some history texts.

Yeah! That's what I'm talking about!

But I would like to add this question was specifically aimed at fictional stories based on the settings as put forth by the Crusader Kings 2 game or other Paradox grand strategy games.

Sorry bubba, can't help you there.
The best AAR's I've seen are in more of a story form, yes, but I really couldn't read them without the maps and character info/trait screens provided.
Good luck though.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Whether you meant it or not, I am actually rather offended by your title. "Actual" fiction? I fail to see how having something published rather than posting it for free here makes it "actual" fiction. That's like saying my fiancee doesn't bake "actual" cookies because she doesn't have them name-branded. I've seen better writing on these forums than that by many of the so-called "professionals".

But to the point it is unlikely because there isn't much of a point, to be honest. Someone can just write historical or ahistorical fiction. Why would they tie it to a game? It is not like (for example) Warhammer, which has its own background and fluff which is copyrighted. Paradox does not own a copyright to history because they made a historical game. So it would probably be cheaper (in the long run) to just publish without getting Paradox involved.

That said, on the other hand I would love to see Paradox take some of the great works from our boards and publish themselves. Then, of course, it would be a Paradox-related print and I guess that would make it "actual" fiction.

 

[Spartanlemur]

Stories tend to kill off characters at significant points. In CK2, your protagonist may die two years from the start of the story

 

[Portal]

I must say I don't care much for a scientific approach to such things. I know all these things to be true but somehow it just tickles me all wrong. I'm more like to just wing it into writing a story and see what ends up well. Instinct above all!

It won't work. Winging it is great for short stories and novellas, but if you intend on a full-length novel you need to prepare, worldbuild, tag and plot before you write if you want to prevent plot-holes and write a compelling story. It's even more important you do so if writing a long series of books covering a fictional dynasty with overarching plot.

Edit: 'Winging' together four separate plot summaries, dividing them into intro/complication/climax/resolution and then writing summaries for individual scenes of each plot and then tying them together into an individual piece may work. But you simply cannot write a novel without a clear idea of where you're going.

Stories tend to kill off characters at significant points. In CK2, your protagonist may die two years from the start of the story

Which makes a crappy story. Kim went to find the Holy Grail, and oh wait he died of typhus halfway to the Holy Land.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Before anything else, to publish you need to write and write and write -- and edit, edit, edit. All the planning in the world a book does not make. You also need to be able to market the book and so it's good you are gauging interest. Otherwise, anyone and their dog can be a published writer these day -- if you have readers willing to pay for it that's the homerun and what you're after, be at a novel, e-book etc.

In five days is National Writers Month; some have taken the journey of intense writing without much prep and later had a base 40-60K words to work with for creating a book they later (after much revision) published, some successfully. It would be difficult to engage in this process for the type of fiction you're talking about, but you still might want to take a look at it. http://www.nanowrimo.org/

 

[Portal]

Before anything else, to publish you need to write and write and write -- and edit, edit, edit. All the planning in the world a book does not make. You also need to be able to market the book and so it's good you are gauging interest. Otherwise, anyone and their dog can be a published writer these day -- if you have readers willing to pay for it that's the homerun and what you're after, be at a novel, e-book etc.

In five days is National Writers Month; some have taken the journey of intense writing without much prep and later had a base 40-60K words to work with for creating a book they later (after much revision) published, some successfully. It would be difficult to engage in this process for the type of fiction you're talking about, but you still might want to take a look at it. http://www.nanowrimo.org/

The less you plot the more you edit. Planning helps you trim superfluous scenes that would be edited heavily if you winged it. Planning saves work, time, effort and the editor's tears. Of course I suppose it is possible certain procrastinators plan and never write; but they wouldn't have the focus to complete a book anyway.

Plotting über alles!

Edit; also marketing is the publisher's job unless you're going the self-publishing route... in which case it's still the publishers job except the publisher is you.