Is there a way to play the Holy roman empire in space?

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xking

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Is there a way to play the "Holy roman empire in space" ? what Ethos,Traits, Government best represent it?

Also is there a way to be both Materialist and Spiritualist in this game? as the Description of the Spiritualist Ethos(the whole reality is just an illusion stuff) is more eastern mystic religion rather then Christianity which is a mix of the Material and Spiritual.
 
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Well one way I can think of manually forming the HRE would be to play with very few starting races on a big Galaxy. Uplift all the pre-FTLs you see and make them your vassals. Once they grow large enough release and form a federation with you as "Emperor".
 
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I really want to play as a spiritualist/ materialist. "We worship the material and the immaterial. You do not understand us, you can never comprehend the ArchProphet. We will build the wormhole to another galaxy, this is our great journey." The Numerian Ascendant.

HRE might work like a federation whose members has vassals that cannot vote.

Edit: Electors would be the main members of the federation. Their vassals could be the other members who do not get to vote. The President of the alliance would be the Emperor.
 
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nweismuller

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I think a possible interpretation of Spiritualist that is less 'Eastern mysticism' would be based on pinpointing just which consciousnesses create reality. Medieval Catholics, after all, believed that this world and all its laws were created by a single Mind, that of God- which actually could fit with Fanatic Spiritualist even with the flavor text as written. Just because consciousness creates reality doesn't mean ALL consciousnesses create reality...
 
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Cynical Dreamer

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In practice, you cannot from my understanding of the game play as both materialist and spiritualistic. As for Rome, I guess the more important in-game ethoses to describe the empire would be militaristic, xenophile and collectivist.
 
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MasterOfGrey

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milamber81

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Well, first you should define, what HRE you are trying to simulate...
The deepest roots under Karl the Great? The second attempt under the Ottons? Both would be Despotic Empires with different degrees of militaristic, if I remember history lessons correctly. But you could also givee the Divine Mandate a try by determining their coronation by the pope as strong seign of spiritual guidance.
Or the weaker phases with shadow- and child emperors? Here you could use an Plutocratic Oligarchy to simulate the changing Emperors that where elected because they paid the biggest bribery. Or the timeframe shortly bevor the end of the HRE? There you'll have to wait either for an Fallen-Empire-DLC or your game reaching the point when your empire is totally blocked by different factions and all you are trying to do is the securing of your borders...
In the end you have to decide what state of the HRE you want to simulate and than think about the government, ethos and traits that fit best to that state...
 
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xking

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I think a possible interpretation of Spiritualist that is less 'Eastern mysticism' would be based on pinpointing just which consciousnesses create reality. Medieval Catholics, after all, believed that this world and all its laws were created by a single Mind, that of God- which actually could fit with Fanatic Spiritualist even with the flavor text as written. Just because consciousness creates reality doesn't mean ALL consciousnesses create reality...
All Christians believe that this world and all its laws were created God. But they don't believe this world is illusory, they believe it is real and in many ways view the physical positivity.
 

13Foxtrot

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Just because an orginaization is religious doesn't mean it needs to be spiritualist.....you could have an empire worship a death/war god and be fanatic militarists and xenophobes....

I think people are really pigeonholing spiritualism.....
 
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xking

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Well, first you should define, what HRE you are trying to simulate...
The deepest roots under Karl the Great? The second attempt under the Ottons? Both would be Despotic Empires with different degrees of militaristic, if I remember history lessons correctly. But you could also givee the Divine Mandate a try by determining their coronation by the pope as strong seign of spiritual guidance.
Or the weaker phases with shadow- and child emperors? Here you could use an Plutocratic Oligarchy to simulate the changing Emperors that where elected because they paid the biggest bribery. Or the timeframe shortly bevor the end of the HRE? There you'll have to wait either for an Fallen-Empire-DLC or your game reaching the point when your empire is totally blocked by different factions and all you are trying to do is the securing of your borders...
In the end you have to decide what state of the HRE you want to simulate and than think about the government, ethos and traits that fit best to that state...
What about "Theocratic Oligarchy" would that work?
 
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milamber81

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In my opinion it wouldn't. In a theocratic oligarchy you'ld have clerics electing one of them as ruler. But while some of the price-electors where clerics, the larger part where noblemen. On the other hand you could argue that those nobleman derived there right to rule (sometimes) from gods decision to put them in charge, so if that's enough for you to state them as clerics, do it...
 
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Just because an orginaization is religious doesn't mean it needs to be spiritualist.....you could have an empire worship a death/war god and be fanatic militarists and xenophobes....

I think people are really pigeonholing spiritualism.....
I see where you're coming from, But the game already kind of pigeonholes every thing with the Descriptions, Ruler Titles and Ethos Effects .
 
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xking

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Why does "Divine Mandate" give Slavery Tolerance? What if you don't want you're Divine Mandate nation to be pro slavery and the religion to be anti-Slavery?
 

nweismuller

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Why does "Divine Mandate" give Slavery Tolerance? What if you don't want you're Divine Mandate nation to be pro slavery and the religion to be anti-Slavery?

Divine Mandate governments grant bonuses to the population's willingness to accept conditions of extreme hardship- both slavery and war- presumably because they're based on advancing the principle of religiously-fueled obedience to the ruler. An anti-slavery theocratic government would be done better as a Theocratic Oligarchy; a somewhat more moderate monarchy with elements of the 'divine right to rule' could be done as a Despotic Empire (which, despite the bonuses to work slaves harder, still has a valuable reduction to building costs). The HRE in general definitely had serfdom for much of its history, which would be a form of slavery.

I think the key thing about Fanatic Spiritualism is not that that physical reality is an illusion, but rather that it's fundamentally subordinate to supernatural reality, which would be consistent with a medieval Christian worldview. Fanatic Spiritualists don't have to reject research into physics and engineering, after all! What they would reject is the idea that understanding of the physical world is the only thing to pursue. They would hold that a study of physical phenomena that rejects the role of the divine or supernatural is fundamentally incomplete.
 
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13Foxtrot

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I see where you're coming from, But the game already kind of pigeonholes every thing with the Descriptions, Ruler Titles and Ethos Effects .

to a degree, but it is purely cosmetic. I think it is done for continuities sake so we don't have 12 random god-emperors running around
 

xking

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Divine Mandate governments grant bonuses to the population's willingness to accept conditions of extreme hardship- both slavery and war- presumably because they're based on advancing the principle of religiously-fueled obedience to the ruler. An anti-slavery theocratic government would be done better as a Theocratic Oligarchy; a somewhat more moderate monarchy with elements of the 'divine right to rule' could be done as a Despotic Empire (which, despite the bonuses to work slaves harder, still has a valuable reduction to building costs). The HRE in general definitely had serfdom for much of its history, which would be a form of slavery.

I think the key thing about Fanatic Spiritualism is not that that physical reality is an illusion, but rather that it's fundamentally subordinate to supernatural reality, which would be consistent with a medieval Christian worldview. Fanatic Spiritualists don't have to reject research into physics and engineering, after all! What they would reject is the idea that understanding of the physical world is the only thing to pursue. They would hold that a study of physical phenomena that rejects the role of the divine or supernatural is fundamentally incomplete.
Fair enough I guess, But I think they should change the spiritualist Description to be more neutral about the(reality is just an illusion stuff).
 
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