Is there a way to break alliances?

[unmerged(57073)]

of opponents, I mean. I've got a great game going as Venice, where I've absorbed the Ottomans and am bored with swallowing the Mideast. I'm looking to take out Austria, but they are allied with Spain/Portugal, plus a few other minors. It's too much to take on at this point. Is there a way to break up that alliance, to isolate Austria? I suppose I could go ahead and DOW them and try to buy off their friends, but Spain is that Alliance's leader, so I can't buy them off without also declaring peace with Austria, I guess. Is there something more sophisticated I can do, to break up the alliance before the DOW?

 

[kurtbrian]

of opponents, I mean. I've got a great game going as Venice, where I've absorbed the Ottomans and am bored with swallowing the Mideast. I'm looking to take out Austria, but they are allied with Spain/Portugal, plus a few other minors. It's too much to take on at this point. Is there a way to break up that alliance, to isolate Austria? I suppose I could go ahead and DOW them and try to buy off their friends, but Spain is that Alliance's leader, so I can't buy them off without also declaring peace with Austria, I guess. Is there something more sophisticated I can do, to break up the alliance before the DOW?

one way is to get high relations with the other allies, and then dow, if you are lucky then most allies wil refuse to join the war.

 

[unmerged(50629)]

of opponents, I mean. I've got a great game going as Venice, where I've absorbed the Ottomans and am bored with swallowing the Mideast. I'm looking to take out Austria, but they are allied with Spain/Portugal, plus a few other minors. It's too much to take on at this point. Is there a way to break up that alliance, to isolate Austria? I suppose I could go ahead and DOW them and try to buy off their friends, but Spain is that Alliance's leader, so I can't buy them off without also declaring peace with Austria, I guess. Is there something more sophisticated I can do, to break up the alliance before the DOW?

Look at the date their alliance ends. So long as they do not engage in wars in the interim, once the alliance ends, attack Austria immediately before they find a new alliance.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

Another way is to enter into that alliance, build relations up with the other allies, down with Austria, and DoW someone else (preferably someone Austria has good relations with and that is far away from you). Austria should then leave your alliance, and be found alone.

 

[unmerged(23193)]

Is there something more sophisticated I can do, to break up the alliance before the DOW?

The textbook answer is:
1) Find a country the rest of the alliance doesn't know about
---a) Ideally distant pagan
---b) Probably from trading maps
2) Join the alliance that you wish to break up
3) Declare war on the distant unknown country.
---a) Pagan countries give stab hits but no BB
4) Ask alliance to join in war
---a) All alliance countries will refuse(assuming country is unknown to them)
---b) Free CBs all around
---c) Alliance broken
5) Create an alliance to your liking
6) Now you are ready to war with your target country.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

One word of caution : once you've broken the alliance apart, be quick to pounce on Austria, otherwise they'll join another alliance or build a new one.

The advantage of not making Spain/Portugal to dishonor is that you're certain they won't join the war on Austria's side during the war, even if you ultimately leave the alliance yourself (if they join another alliance during the war, their new allies won't come in the war, whereas if they create a new alliance as leaders their new allies will join the war too).

 

[Jomini]

Another way is to enter into that alliance, build relations up with the other allies, down with Austria, and DoW someone else (preferably someone Austria has good relations with and that is far away from you). Austria should then leave your alliance, and be found alone.

The relations of Austria with your target is mostly immaterial in my experience. I regularly enter alliances and bribe up certain members solely to declare war on their vassals and have them break the vassalization to honor my call. I could be wrong, but I think the AI only checks if your relations are sufficiently low (certainly anything terribly far below zero will result in dishonor).

The fool proof method to trash an alliance is as broadsword suggested. If you are terribly worried about the alliance reforming under Austrian leadership and your inability to reform the alliance under you at the moment it shatters; then you can either pick a target known to the rest of the alliance, but not Austria or you can share maps with the rest of the alliance.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

The relations of Austria with your target is mostly immaterial in my experience. I regularly enter alliances and bribe up certain members solely to declare war on their vassals and have them break the vassalization to honor my call. I could be wrong, but I think the AI only checks if your relations are sufficiently low (certainly anything terribly far below zero will result in dishonor).

Yes, relations with the target matter ; not as much as relations with you, but what I said was bad relations with you, high relations with the target. Even with bad relations, I've sometimes seen my allies honor the call when their relations with the other country were low ; and consequently, I've seen allies dishonor even with high relations, when they had high relations with the target.

The fool proof method to trash an alliance is as broadsword suggested. If you are terribly worried about the alliance reforming under Austrian leadership and your inability to reform the alliance under you at the moment it shatters; then you can either pick a target known to the rest of the alliance, but not Austria or you can share maps with the rest of the alliance.

And the fool-proof method of assuring only Austria didn't know about that country but the other allies did ? Map-sharing ? Giving your precious maps, on which figure your colonial CoTs ?