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unmerged(62689)

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I wouldn't be surprised if this has been raised before, but I was wondering if Paradox has ever given an official reason as to why they haven't released HOI in a modern day scenario format?

I would have thought it would be something they could do fairly quickly, and I mean quickly relative to developing a whole new game, and thus capitalise on its popularity and make some easy money?

Maybe its just me, but a full blown MDS version of HOI would be wicked, so curious what news others have?
 

Luka

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I'm uninterested in modern warfare when it comes to games. The game is about and is suited to WW2 (maybe WW1).
The WW2 theme is always the big seller.
 

Grohal

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The main-problem with these modern times is:

No country could dominate the world through military means anymore. So it would have to be a whole new way to aproach for the programmers.

Plus of course "the old days" are way more interesting than the things I see in the news everyday in different colors. Look at the modern times - what is there to be called war? The mighty U.S.A. smashing the 6th best army in a couple of weeks to nothing in the early 90? The same U.S.A. crawling through the jungle of vietnam and never finding the enemy in numbers that would matter in the 70? The time for big wars like the WW I and WW II - settings that give the player "grand strategy" to handle - is (thankfully) over.
 

Alex_brunius

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Im against Paradox doing anything for "easy money".

Also modern day technollogy allows for alot of units that can shoot multiple provinces away (rocket artillery, cruise missiles). I don't think I have to mention how badly these features worked in HoI2 with v2/v1 rockets. Not even Carriers can fire on things in other provinces properly...

The higher speed of airplanes would make interceptions impossible since regular bombers can travel 900km/h without a problem. That means a bomber can fly from London, be in Berlin the next hour and then when the interceptors are launched the bomber is already back in London.

These problems get worse when you implement aircrafts like SR-71 Blackbirds with speeds of 3500 km/h and above.

HoI2 and HoI3 are NOT built to facilitate modern warfare at ALL. And they would require major changes in all aspects of the game to work.
 
Jan 6, 2009
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It would require more diplomacy, politics and economy. Maybe one day they will do such game. At least I hope so. But now I would rather count on good HoI3 expansions and its moddability. As for expansions I would prefer rather going back to WWI and Interwar period but also extend the time a little forward maybe to 60s. The problem is with late WWII - nukes. They are a finisher. When 1 country develops them its then end - it can beat all - especcially if its Axis country. I mean when only 1 country has ability to nuke its opponents its a game over IMO noone can stop such enemy. Im curious how will it work in HoI3.
 

unmerged(76495)

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HoI is a game centered around grand strategy. Capturing vast areas of land using conventional arms to outwit your enemy. A game centered around modern or cold war age would center on empire building through diplomacy and proxy wars, prestige, economy etc. HoI is hardly suited to this, but Vicky is and if p-dox ever makes a modern/cold war game then it will likely be centered around Vicky rather than HoI.

I doubt though that Paradox will do it. Reading the EU forums will tell you how many people are willing to bitch, whine and flame about something thats centuries in the past. Thinking of it as a personal insult to their people intentionally created by the evil evil game corporation who is likely just a front for this carefully designed slap in the face. Think over this a minute.








Now try to think what would happen if the game was set in modern age!
 

warchlak

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No please no modern warfare. It is better to extend the time limit in the past, means 1st world war eventually at the end of the 19th century... for example around 1871 after Germany won against France...
 

Will Lucky

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Doing a game set in the Modern Day would require more effort, it would require they research modern more unique military units, do there own Historical Story of events for some sort of WW3 and rewrite the game to fit todays diplomacy, economy ect.
 

unmerged(76495)

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Is MDS really a common acronym? I never would have guessed it. I thought this thread was about a market development strategy.
I don't use it. But theres a fairly popular HoI mod called MDS which is an acronym for Modern Day Scenario IIRC. So obviously you should now it! ;)
 

Myth

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Too controversial, and too much like fantasy beyond a certain point in time. Too many events Paradox would no doubt want to shy away from. The practical difficulties of simulating insurgencies and other unconventional warfare, too difficult to create a viable economic system. One of the major hot spots in the world is a banned topic here. It most likely won't ever happen.
 

dharper

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A modern-day game would run into a number of problems:

Controversy: Would you give Hugo Chavez a bonus or a penalty? Would China count as a Communist Dictatorship or an Emerging Capitalist Totalitarian State? The debates would be endless, and Paradox could well be opening itself up to charges of discrimination, not only from players but from countries.

Short shelf life: I used to love the game "Shadow President", a very detailed political, economic and military simulation set around 1992. Unfortunately, while time has moved on, Shadow President hasn't. It starts in 1991 when you have to deal with the Soviet Union collapsing and Iraq invading Kuwait...but increasingly that world seems absurd, and America's role different. Where are the environmental disasters and treaties? Where are the third parties acting as kingmakers in elections? Who in 2007 would have predicted the global economic meltdown of 2008-9? Who in 2000 would have predicted how 9/11 would change the Middle East and NATO? Within a few months of release the game would already be outdated, and within a few years it would be laughable - which means fewer sales.

Complexity: How could any game simulate the incredible complexity of the world of 2009? Consider all of the following and try to come up with rules for them that still makes the game fun: (1) Many third world countries are deeply in debt to the IMF and a large percentage of government revenues must be spent on debt repayments, even though regimes and even political systems have changed since the loans were made; (2) Agricultural producers in Africa face unfair competition from American, European and Japanese agricultural subsidies which are popular domestically and excluded from free trade agreements; (3) the First Past The Post system used in Canada, combined with its five mostly regional political parties, has resulted in minority governments for the last several elections. However, these minority governments do not act like European or Israeli minorities and do not form coalitions, preferring to act as if they had a mandate; (4) Thailand is coming under increasing international pressure to put an end to the export of endangered species, mostly to the United States and China.

...Basically, you could perhaps simulate the game well for the United States if you worked hard, but trying to make the same rules apply to every nation would be laughable. If you worked really hard you could get a game that worked well for Europe, too, but getting it to simulate the realities around the world would be next to impossible - and it would make the game too complex to enjoy.
 
Dec 17, 2008
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Activision has developed 5 call of duty games plus 4-5 expansions. The COD franchise has sold 25 million copies. 1/3 of these sales belong to COD4: modern warfare. Why is that? Obviously because ww2 is overplayed, there are too many games based on this historical period. Paradox knows this and my guess is that a MDS game is coming.

The game would go historical until 2009 then it would go ahistorical. I mean you could have a group of Russian nationalists seizing power in Russia then attacking for example Ukraine which would entail a NATO response etc etc etc, just like COD 4. This way Paradox won't worry about political sensitivity
 

unmerged(105596)

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Activision has developed 5 call of duty games plus 4-5 expansions. The COD franchise has sold 25 million copies. 1/3 of these sales belong to COD4: modern warfare. Why is that? Obviously because ww2 is overplayed, there are too many games based on this historical period. Paradox knows this and my guess is that a MDS game is coming.

The game would go historical until 2009 then it would go ahistorical. I mean you could have a group of Russian nationalists seizing power in Russia then attacking for example Ukraine which would entail a NATO response etc etc etc, just like COD 4. This way Paradox won't worry about political sensitivity

It's quite a lot easier to make a FPS with some kind of not-so-very-deep intrigue than to make a game about the entire world and global politics and all the rules within it. If you fire an AK-47 towards someone, that someone might get killed. What if you send a shipment of AK-47s into a foreign country that has been blockaded by your neighbours etc etc etc? I think there's pretty big difference.
 

diskoerekto

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being politically correct gets harder and harder as the time period of the game gets closer to today. I do not remember much problems around Crusader Kings. Topics about balkan countries are always hot in Europa Universalis. I do not follow Victoria boards as much but I know the topics are more controversial than EU. When it comes to HoI series, there are several banned topics which require not even being mentioned. In my opinion Paradox bans those subjects not because they want stuff to remain unspoken but becuse they have legal responsibilities. Regarding a modern day scenario, I doubt Paradox wants to get themselves under that kind of pressure.

How can Paradox put in the database an active certain head of goverment as a liar or a cleptocrat? The consequences would be dire. How will Paradox satisfy everybody in this forum and their mothers about their country represented as powerful as it should be? How many banned topics would there be? A modern day game would be only bad for Paradox.

On the other hand, modders doing it is completely right as they hold no legal responsibilities towards anyone and Paradox is doing a great job making every new game more moddable than the previous one.
 

diskoerekto

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dharper emu'ed me on the controversy stuff. Though, I disagree about the complexity point. Abstractions can be made and a system can be designed. About short shelf life, it is unavoidable.

On the other hand, if I am not mistaken secret documents are opened to public after 50 years. That can give a lot information. Topics of 60's are not as hot as today's and events are more or less numerously debated on by historians. So, a game starting in 60's with little hard events (hard events vs soft events as in events a la EU2 vs EU3) but mostly soft flexible events can make sense.

With nearly no full scale wars though, the era can be a little "boring" for a player.
 

Syt

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I would love a 1980s version of HoI, with NATO vs WP at its center, and China as wildcard. You could easily have multiple variants (Middle East options, warfare in South America, African options, various options for the European Theater), and a major goal being to achieve your goals while avoiding total nuclear holocaust.
 

Von Biddulph

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I've thought about modding HOI2 to be a post-Vietnam scenario.. with a beginning around 1981 with Reagan coming to power. The 'Evil Empire' verses America, the Ayatollahs in Iran and of course the Chinese who may or may not sit out the conflict. The various proxy wars would take place in central America/Africa. Add the Falkland Wars possibility as well.
 

orwell

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A modern scenario by paradox is something I will never expect to see. While I don't think it's quite as difficult as dharper makes out, it would take an effort that is beyond the scale of even AGCEEEP, double at least and that's just for potential major players, nevermind all the minors of the world. If you wanted an engine to take care of everything that would otherwise need an event, well.... Let's just leave it at very unlikely one is to appear in the next 5 years.