Is there a most balanced start date?

Is there a most balanced start date?

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R.Graymarch

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1066 is where the vanilla game starts (before they added 936 in latest patch)
Ireland 1066 is pretty safe but also could be boring depending on your playstyle/expectation as no much happens there. You did the tutorial in Spain, if you like it, maybe try to unify the peninsula? Forming Hispania can be a nice challenge
I heard the duke of Apulia, 1066, is a good start too
Enjoy
 

StefanFan

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Thanks for the ideas, for now I am still reading some guides/random stuff from the wiki, and tomorrow I will start playing.

I don't have expectations, I remember when I started EU4 how many times I lost armies because I forgot to move the army slider before the war started and my morale was low when attacking, and how many mistakes just killed my games. So first I want to read a bit, then play something easy to get acknowledged with the mechanics.

EDIT: Building an excel to have on the right screen when playing so I can quickly read important things.
Something like this https://prnt.sc/u7raa9
 
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Karlington

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Thanks for the ideas, for now I am still reading some guides/random stuff from the wiki, and tomorrow I will start playing.

I don't have expectations, I remember when I started EU4 how many times I lost armies because I forgot to move the army slider before the war started and my morale was low when attacking, and how many mistakes just killed my games. So first I want to read a bit, then play something easy to get acknowledged with the mechanics.

EDIT: Building an excel to have on the right screen when playing so I can quickly read important things.
Something like this https://prnt.sc/u7raa9
Nice spreadsheet! :)

A few tips:

The Imbecile trait makes characters as likely to spill the beans on plots as Drunkard does. Slow and Dull also increase the chance, but not as much.

If you aren't beyond using exploits, an easy way to get money is to search for unmarried men with no dynasty (no great family) in the Character Finder. It may take a bit of time to find, but you can often find deposed mayors here, with hundreds or even over a thousand gold. It takes a while after game start for that to happen, though.

If there are no heirs (like a deposed mayor who has no family and no dynasty) then an unlanded's gold is inherited by their liege lord. It's often easier to murder than imprison and banish, which you can take advantage of here. :)

To change the culture and religion of imprisoned children you have to put them in house arrest, not in the dungeon or oubliette (they are in the dungeon by default when you capture them). Children in the dungeon or oubliette have a separate chain of events.

One advantage of children in house arrest is that you get the chance to change their culture and religion without needing to set the appropriate focus, while you need either Faith or Heritage on free children. You can educate house arrested children any way you want and still control their culture and religion. :) However, remember that children's culture and religion can only be changed between the ages of 6 and 12.

You don't actually need to assign a tutor to children you have imprisoned - they will have you as tutor by default, without taking up one of you two spaces for wards. :) Tutors won't always change the culture or religion of wards, but if you are the tutor then you get to control the choice when it pops up. But if you have a lot of child prisoners the number of childhood events popping up can be annoying.

PS. I'm not sure what you mean by divorce for money? If you were inspired by the CK3 video then unfortunately that won't work in CK2. After your first wedding your character is marked, and you get no more choices between Prestige and gold upon marrying someone after the first time. :(
 
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Karlington

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Thanks, I will add these in the excel. The Character Finder is already present in the excel on line 1 and 2, but I wrote it short so I don't waste excel space :p
No problem! Fair enough. :)
 
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ThePettyQueen

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If you like studying up before trying something, there are numerous Let'sPlays/tutorials on YouTube you could take a look at.
 

StefanFan

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R.Graymarch

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For spymasters in general, opinion>skill.
Yeah, it's good to have a super efficient spymaster but if he doesn't like you, that (he) may kill you. Try to find a balance

More generally, I'd avoid "Conclave DLC" if you have it at start. In enriches a lot the internal game but it makes it more complicated at the beginning. When you are more comfortable, it will be easier for you to manoeuver those DLC features.
 
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Theodora Nil

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Good to know. Another question. I see that there are those challenges until 1 of September. Is there any chance I could do all before the deadline? Or they involve many days.
Seems like a good, realworld example of why removing the challenges is a mistake. They said it themselves, they're a good way for newbies to learn the ropes.

1066 somewhere like Ireland or Spain is usually recommended as the go-to start for new people, but don't be afraid to experiment and fail horribly. It's all part of the fun. :)
 

DPS

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Seems like a good, realworld example of why removing the challenges is a mistake. They said it themselves, they're a good way for newbies to learn the ropes.

1066 somewhere like Ireland or Spain is usually recommended as the go-to start for new people, but don't be afraid to experiment and fail horribly. It's all part of the fun. :)
I very much disagree with Ireland in 1066 as a start date for newbies--there is a very excellent chance that a new player will find Ireland in 1066 boring an lose interest in the game. Instead, I recommend Poland for a new player's first game. It's a mid-sized realm, so you learn about managing vassals and the like, but it's not so big that you'll be overwhelmed as you might be with a really big realm. It's fairly secure, and there are plenty of relatively weak pagan realms bordering you to expand into.

As for Spain, laying the tutorial and continuing that isn't a bad idea, but it's a bit less secure than Poland in 1066 (the Spanish Muslims at that point are a bit more potent than the pagans near Poland).

Sicily in 1066 also gets recommended as a newbie start, but I haven't played that one personally, so I can't really comment on it.
 
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Theodora Nil

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I definitely agree that Ireland is overly recommended, but it's not lifeless. Sometimes you'll get invasions from the mainland, so there's a bit of a rush to put the kingdom together.
 

Rubidium

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I definitely agree that Ireland is overly recommended, but it's not lifeless. Sometimes you'll get invasions from the mainland, so there's a bit of a rush to put the kingdom together.
I'm not sure "occasionally a great power will randomly conquer you" is an incentive to play it as a newbie.

The big problem with 1066 Ireland is that it essentially ignores all the interesting mechanics.

You're either a count or a duke with two counties, so you don't get the vassal mechanics (which are a huge part of the game, and one of the things that makes it both different and fun).

Your only options for CBs are fabricating claims (slow, RNG-dependent, and develops bad habits) or waiting a generation and hoping for a lucky inheritance/claim from your spouse.*

It gives the impression that most of CK2 is just sitting there watching the RNG play the game for you, and occasionally making a decision, while the main things it teaches you are simple mechanical things (here's how you raise levies) that the tutorial does perfectly well.

*I'm ignoring wacky things like becoming a heretic/infidel and holy warring my way to victory, winning a crusade somehow, or requesting a papal-sponsored invasion because those are not tactics I'd recommend to a new player.
 
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StefanFan

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I am an achievement whore so playing Ireland would certainly give me some achievements, so it won't be boring. :D I have plenty of EU4 achievements, but I put the game on hold until they release a patch to fix the mess from Emperor. But I also plan to alternate CK2 with EU4 and FM2020, while waiting for a Fallout 4 overhaul mod to live beta, so CK2 is for the long term, I don't plan to play CK3 until the game is ironed out, that's at least 1-2 years ahead, and most certainly not before I play Imperator. Patience comes with age :p
 

R.Graymarch

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Usually in 1066, when Scotland or Wales knock at the door, you are strong enough to push them back. (In 869, with viking raids, it's another story)
If England knocks, it's another problem though
 

Naughtius Maximus

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DO NOT DO IRELAND FIRST.

Ireland is for beginners who are committed to learning mechanics.

The goal for first timers is to hook them into the game.

For first time players who want to experience CK2 rather than watching paint dry, there are much more dynamic starts. We don't want to bore newbies out of ever trying CK2 again.

I would recommend the Duke of Apulia in Sicily.
 
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StefanFan

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PS. I'm not sure what you mean by divorce for money? If you were inspired by the CK3 video then unfortunately that won't work in CK2. After your first wedding your character is marked, and you get no more choices between Prestige and gold upon marrying someone after the first time. :(
Updated the spreadsheet, and regarding this part of your comment, the guide I was reading hasn't updated the Prestige/Gold event. I will cross it from the list.
DO NOT DO IRELAND FIRST.

Ireland is for beginners who are committed to learning mechanics.

The goal for first timers is to hook them into the game.

For first time players who want to experience CK2 rather than watching paint dry, there are much more dynamic starts. We don't want to bore newbies out of ever trying CK2 again.

I would recommend the Duke of Apulia in Sicily.
I haven't had time to play, I will make a choice between Apulia, Ireland, Poland, Sicily and uniting Hispania. Thank you.

I am also accepting new suggestions for my excel: https://prnt.sc/u8juo5
 
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R.Graymarch

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  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Money
  • As in EU4, consider upgrading first the building that bring you money. If you play a long game, ROI will be better
  • If you have SoA DLC, borrowing to the jews can help you many times to recruit mercs (there is no loan à la EU4). You can expel the jews for more cash but it will damage your reputation (not recommended)
  • Raising fleet is super expensive. If you can transport your troupes with only your vassal fleet, you will see the differences.

War
  • If you have LoR DLC, Retinues are permanent army. It costs a lot so it's precious but it can be very helpful as it's already raised+full moral
  • Put the best commanders in charge of armies. You may look at traits but after "martial" (ie a "15 martial no trait" outclasses a "8 martial, commands the center"
  • Do you really want to put your character among its troupes? Reward is high, but so is risk. Of course, it depends also on his stats/traits
  • "Organizer" makes you go faster, it can be a life changer
  • Attrition can be super bad. Especially in pagan land. There is no cap à la EU4.
  • CTRL+Raise raise the army where there are no enemies
  • Sometimes a white peace now is better than a victory in 3 years (if the difference is 200 prestige vs 100, for example)
  • It's usually wise to push a vassal to hate you so that he rebels, you win (and may revoke a title?), and get a big opinion boost because you crushed a major revolt
  • Banish people bring all their money to you (check if it brings tyranny)
  • A ransomed enemy may come back on the battlefield. So unless I really need to the money, I execute them or (if opinion malus) let them rot in jail
  • Check warscore components! There is a ticking warscore as in EU4 (but usually you win at +100 and lose at -100). Some characters also are warscore (don't ransom them!). If you capture the leader, you win (if an allied AI captures the leader, it may ransom him...)
  • Edit: you may assault to go faster in a siege. Usually, you should have 10x the garrison size to do that
  • Your armies reinforce if you are in your territory. A little detour for some months (it's a monthly tick) may help you a lot /Edit
Character - succession
  • Never kill someone of your dynasty unless you want to cope with "kinslayer" trait (usually, you don't)
  • Avoid tyranny as maximum. It's nasty
  • "Depressed is the best trait of the game" according to a friend. Because you can choose when your character dies. I find that a little extreme, but see next point
  • If you need opinion from someone, bribing is usually the easiest way
  • Successions are usually tough parts of the game. As opinion grows with the years, it's difficult to pass from a "65 yo who reigned the last 40 years" to his "21 yo grand son". Keep money for mercenaries, prepare succession
  • Look at succession laws. If you are in Gavelkind, try to have only one "big" title (one kingdom, not two. One duchy, not two) to avoid splitting and go to war against your kin
  • If you are in elective succession, it's usually better to go with a "mediocre heir" who will keep all your titles rather than a "good heir" that will only get half of it
  • Fiancailles/marriages are important for alliances or Non agression pacts. And also for pushing claims of another person
  • If you only have daughter (or one frail son), consider matrilineary weddings
  • Bringing a character to your court, land him/her (very important) and then push your claims to expand your realm.
  • Remember that you cannot have a vassal of same rank as you. So if you are a duke, do not push a ducal claim of a vassal because that will make him independant (but he will love you^^) rather than expanding your realm
Just on top of my head
 
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